Avoiding snaps in Ubuntu 22.04 (and derivatives)

[Rosika (Rosika Schreck)]

Hi folks,

how nice of you to post some more comments. Thanks a lot.

@nevj:

@nevj

You then have to try and find a way to install needed packages that are only available as snaps.

Yes, that´s clear, I think.

@nevj

I think, in principle, @Akito 's argument for staying with Lubuntu is correct

That was my initial goal, too.

Yet @Akito ´s words still ring in my ears:

@Akito

As viewable, there are quite a number of posts and articles on this topic.
Though, I doubt they are taking the necessary safety measures to guarantee everything is still working after complete removal. […]
maybe some of the methods worked before, but do not work anymore.

In short, be careful and think about how much trouble you are willing to go into, for the sake of removing snap entirely.

I was thinking quite a lot about that.

@Akito is certainly right pointing out these considerations.

BTW:
In the meantime I recieved an answer to my query from Jerry Bezencon, the creator of Linux Lite (https://www.linuxliteos.com/forums/suggestions-and-feedback/linuxlite-6-0-snap-free/ )
and I got the confirmation that Linux Lite 6.0 indeed is snap-free. .

I´m really considering it now.

@nevj

Unfortunately @Rosika does not want to consider MX because it is semi-rolling release. Similarly Devuan is semi-rolling.

Yes, quite so.
Aside from the fact it´s not that I don´t want to consider the alternatives. It´s rather that I need to take the data caps for my system setup into account.

@nevj

If you really want to ensure that a distro will never decide to force snap onto you, choose a non-systemd distro

Yes, that´s certainly a valid point.

@nevj

My feeling about Ubuntu is they are using snap as a method of avoiding responsibility for ensuring compatability of packages.

That might very well be so.

Thanks a lot, Neville

@clatterfordslim:

@clatterfordslim

Flatpaks are just as space hungry as Snaps are, but they are more reliable than Snaps.

Good to know.
And as far as I know (I´m not totally sure though) flatpaks won´t force updates on you.

@clatterfordslim

Every Ubuntu family niche OS Xubuntu, Kubuntu, all of them with buntu on the end, seem to have to follow what Canonical says, to stay in the Ubuntu family of Distros.

Yes.
I guess that´s true for the official derivatives, like the ones you mentioned.
What a blessing then that the unofficial derivatives (like Mint, Linux Lite, Bodhi Linux …)
don´t follow that path.

@clatterfordslim

I was disgusted with Firefox being turned into a Snap,

Me too.

@clatterfordslim

If Canonical had done the right thing in the first place, of giving us choice of whether we want to use their Snap Packages or not, then yes I would use Ubuntu.

Right. That´s just the point.

Thanks a lot for your opinion (and also for the link).

@Akito:

Thanks to you as well.

In the meantime I have covered all the links you provided apart from the last one. The source (server?) was unavailable yesterday, at least during the time I tried it.
Will try it today.

Thanks so much.

Many greetings to all.
Rosika

[Akito]

@Rosika

I was thinking quite a lot about that.

@Akito is certainly right pointing out these considerations.

It’s good to be aware of these issues, though that’s also the reason I recommended restoring a real backup onto a VM and then remove snap according to one of the tutorials. Then, you can test if it broke anything, within a safe environment.

[Rosika (Rosika Schreck)]

Thanks @Akito,

@Akito

I recommended restoring a real backup onto a VM and then remove snap according to one of the tutorials

I see what you mean, but as I said earlier:

env LANG=en_GB:en snap list --all
No snaps are installed yet. Try 'snap install hello-world'.

The only thing I could remove woud be snapd then. I think - given the fact no snaps are installed - it shouldn´t break anything.

Well, I wouldn´t know how to restore a real backup onto a VM anyway…

Never mind; the more I think of it the more Linux Lite would seem a good alternative.
I just tried out some things in distrotest (https://distrotest.net/Linux%20Lite ) and up to now it seems to meet my expectations. .

For a systemd-free OS antix (based on Debian Bullseye) could also be a candidate.

• DistroWatch.com: antiX
• https://antixlinux.com/

Thanks so much and many greetings
Rosika

[clatterfordslim (mark)]

@nevj

How do I access the src code for a snap pack ( or flatpak or appimage)

Here is a link for AppImage

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

@clatterfordslim

Here is a link for AppImage

Thanks,
I dont understand it yet, but at least I know for appimage src code exists

[clatterfordslim (mark)]

@clatterfordslim

sudo apt purge snapd Reboot then in Terminal
sudo apt-get remove --purge gnome-software gnome-software-plugin-snap

Answering myself here.
I have always used the above approach with getting rid of snaps on whatever OS I am looking at, that has snapd installed. I do not see what other dependencies snapd relies on. Systemd is completely different to snapd, as snapd is for snap packages only. Once you’ve rebooted after purging snapd, then remove the gnome-software-plugin-snap. Reboot again to make sure it has gone. Since Peppermint 9 I have used this method and nothing else has ever broken. I know better to be safe than sorry, by all means do a backup if you’re worried, as Ubuntu 22.04 is new and won’t reach it’s first point release till October I believe? Hopefully Xfce 4.16.4 will be released properly to get rid of the disappearing panel bug, after removing an app from a panel. I have installed the 4.16.4 in Linux Mint Vanessa Xfce and in Linux Lite 6.0, as they were also affected by this weird bug in 4.16.3. Everything is okay and running as should in those Distros. I will have to get in contact with Jerry at Linux Lite to tell and show him what I have done. Weird how far behind Debian Ubuntu is, with it’s packages.

[Rosika (Rosika Schreck)]

Hi all,

Having looked through Alan Pope´s blog at Disabling snap Autorefresh - Alan Pope's blog I want to state the most insightful points I came across - in case anyone´s interested.

Note: the article doesn´t cover the topic of disabling snaps in general but nevertheless I think it´s interesting as far as autorefreshing of snaps is concerned.

• One of the fundamental design goals of snaps is that they’re kept up to date. At a high level, the snapd daemon running on end-user systems will check in with the Snap Store periodically, looking for new revisions of installed snaps.
  By default snapd does this every day, four times a day, at semi-random times

• Over the years since the introduction of snap as a packaging format, there have been numerous empassioned requests to change this default behaviour

• Having a daemon hard-wired to force updates on the user is undesireable for those who prefer to control package installation.

• Snaps installed via snap install foo directly from the store will automatically get updates per the schedule, when the publisher releases a new revision.
  Instead, it’s possible to snap download foo && snap install foo --dangerous instead. This completely opts-out of automatic updates for that specific snap only.

• Note: Do not snap download foo then snap ack foo as this will acknowledge the assertion from the store, and will enable auto update.

• The refresh of applications can be deferred with the refresh.hold option. This can, for example, enable a user to defer updates to the weekend, overnight, or on a specific date/time.

• If NetworkManager detects that a connection is metered, snapd can be configured to suppress updates via refresh.metered.

• Even if a user chooses to defer updates via refresh.hold, they’ll still happen “eventually”. When is “eventually”? 60 days. As delivered, users cannot defer a snap refresh beyond the hard-wired 60-day limit.

• Prevent running applications from being refreshed:
  sudo snap set core experimental.refresh-app-awareness=true

(exclamation marks by me)

Well, even if it doesn´t help solve my original problem I think those facts are interesting to know.

Many greetings Rosika

[Rosika (Rosika Schreck)]

Hi Mark,

thanks a lot for providing your method.

@clatterfordslim

Since Peppermint 9 I have used this method and nothing else has ever broken. I know better to be safe than sorry, by all means do a backup if you’re worried,

Good to know.
Well, backups indeed.

Many greetings from Rosika

P.S.:

@clatterfordslim

Hopefully Xfce 4.16.4 will be released properly to get rid of the disappearing panel bug, after removing an app from a panel. I have installed the 4.16.4 in Linux Mint Vanessa Xfce and in Linux Lite 6.0, as they were also affected by this weird bug in 4.16.3.
Everything is okay and running as should in those Distros. I will have to get in contact with Jerry at Linux Lite to tell and show him what I have done.

While it´s a good idea to inform Jerry, I think you may additionally post the bug here:
xfce:xfce4-panel:bugs [Xfce Docs] .

[Rosika (Rosika Schreck)]

@clatterfordslim

Hopefully Xfce 4.16.4 will be released properly to get rid of the disappearing panel bug, after removing an app from a panel. I have installed the 4.16.4 in Linux Mint Vanessa Xfce and in Linux Lite 6.0, as they were also affected by this weird bug in 4.16.3.

Interesting,
could you tell me how did it?

I see in Linux Lite xfce4-panel 4.16.3-1 is installed.
Did you un-install it first and then install the 4.16.4 version?

Many greetings
Rosika

[clatterfordslim (mark)]

@Rosika

Did you un-install it first and then install the 4.16.4 version?

Added this PPA from Xubuntu for 4.16.4
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xubuntu-dev/staging
sudo apt update
sudo apt upgrade
Then reboot system
After reboot check panel right click it and choose about, it should say 4.16.4

[clatterfordslim (mark)]

@Rosika

While it´s a good idea to inform Jerry, I think you may additionally post the bug here:
xfce:xfce4-panel:bugs [Xfce Docs] .

Have reported it to Xfce and the fix too

[Rosika (Rosika Schreck)]

Hi Mark,

thanks for the feedback.

@clatterfordslim

Have reported it to Xfce and the fix too

Great, thanks a lot.

@clatterfordslim

Added this PPA from Xubuntu for 4.16.4
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xubuntu-dev/staging
sudo apt update
sudo apt upgrade
Then reboot system

I see. Thast´s wonderful.
However this idea certainly wouldn´t have entered my mind, I have to admit.

Taking a look at LinuxLite´s package list at DistroWatch.com: Linux Lite there isn´t even an single entry containing “xubuntu”.

Thanks so much for providing your method.

Many greetings
Rosika

[clatterfordslim (mark)]

@Rosika

Taking a look at LinuxLite´s package list at DistroWatch.com: Linux Lite there isn´t even an single entry containing “xubuntu”.

Xubuntu is Xfce the same as Linux Lite. So for my trouble of reporting my findings to Xfce I get this.

Disappearing panel when removing an app with right click of mouse (#617) ·...

Dunno why I bother at times, when the response is this. I’d thought I would save them the time of searching code.

[Rosika (Rosika Schreck)]

Hi again,

@clatterfordslim

So for my trouble of reporting my findings to Xfce I get this. […]
Dunno why I bother at times, when the response is this. I’d thought I would save them the time of searching code.

Right you are, Mark. I´m astonished they didn´t react in a more thankful way.

Well, for what it´s worth I am grateful to you for posting the solution you came up with as I
definively consider switching over to LinuxLite for a new install.
Then I need to employ your method. So thanks again.

@clatterfordslim

Xubuntu is Xfce the same as Linux Lite.

Yes. Right.
But how exactly did you come up witth the solution? What gave you the right impulse?
I mean this part:

@clatterfordslim

Added this PPA from Xubuntu for 4.16.4
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xubuntu-dev/staging
sudo apt update
sudo apt upgrade
Then reboot system

Did you go over to the xubuntu site for looking after a soulution?

Many greetings
Rosika

[Akito]

@clatterfordslim

Dunno why I bother at times, when the response is this. I’d thought I would save them the time of searching code.

This is a huge reason, why Linux has often a hard time to get popular. This is not a way to treat users, who provide valuable information.

Technically, he is correct, though. Questions are for fora and reproducible bug descriptions made by developers are for bug trackers.
Despite that, he should’ve handled the situation in a better way and point you to the forum or maybe help you along.

[clatterfordslim (mark)]

@Akito

Despite that, he should’ve handled the situation in a better way and point you to the forum or maybe help you along.

I got told by Linux Mint too to go over to Xfce bug page to report it.
Yes he could of said thank you lets put it that way.

[Akito]

@clatterfordslim

Yes he could of said thank you lets put it that way.

Looking at the issue again, it became clear the issue was a duplicate. So, I guess he was already informed.

[clatterfordslim (mark)]

@Akito

Looking at the issue again, it became clear the issue was a duplicate.

Yes after the fact, that I searched on there for disappearing panels, using as many different search phrases I could come up with, yet nothing came up in the end result. I shall not bother doing that again, unless they can fix their search? After I reported to Clem on Github about it, even though he asked me to report it and I did, but too late I guess, as others were asking me to too. So obviously they could not find anything on the site either in the search. It had been done and dusted and closed nine days or so ago, so even after a report is dealt with it’s then closed, then becomes unsearchable, leading to duplicate reports.
Then people like myself are left with pie in the face.

I can imagine him walking round his office with a piece of plastic hanging out of his ear, talking to plastic voices. I am not angry about it, just disappointed. No I did not want paper hats or ice cream or a cake or party poppers. I’m just an ordinary bloke living an ordinary life, in a ordinary building, with an ordinary mortgage, with an ordinary car, with a weird hour job, in a weird hour world. With my as good as wife, not legally on paper. What’s a piece of paper with our signatures on going to change? Been together fifteen years, so as good as married. By the time we get legally married we’ll be in our nineties and knowing the way this country is going? The retirement age would of increased to ninety anyway. So we’ll be a couple of brains in a pickle jar, hooked up to a machine to keep us charged to use our brains as batteries, to run the latest electric car. Sorry gone to a whole new world, don’t mean to.