Debian Day volunteer suicide & censorship in FOSS communities

The Debian Day volunteer suicide has had a lot of attention today yet the only place where you can’t discuss it is the debian-project mailing list and IRC. There is a lot more detail about the way it relates to Ubuntu and Google throwing their weight around in FOSS.

The VLC developers are in Slashdot today because their software is censored in India (link censored by Discourse settings).

Salman Rushdie survived an attempt on his life last week and Iran made no effort to rescind their fatwa.

FOSS groups make a lot of noise about being open and transparent but don’t be surprised if a bunch of them get together and mob the moderator of this forum to hide this post by pestering him/her with vexatious spam reports and sly comments about the reliability of independent FOSS blogs.

I’ve tried to make sense of your post by reading up on the link provided (the second one won’t load), but nothing was explained at all. There are just mentions of some guy committing suicide 12 years ago.

What’s the point? Care to explain?

If this is some kind of whack brainwash talk, it does not belong to any FOSS forum or community.

So, please identify your intentions and explain what you are trying to say, instead of mixing stuff and making no sense.

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Can you please clarify this point. Does the second link from any other device you have? Does it fail on both your computer and your phone?

There have been some extreme attempts to censor some of the content on the Debian Suicide FYI site.

Frans Pop committed suicide for his own reasons. However sad that might be, it’s not relevant to ItsFoss. Debianday should be barred.

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Is there any evidence of those reasons, other than the emails he sent to debian-private?

Have you read all the emails from debian-private between 2006 and 2010?

The forum software provides an option for you to ignore topics that do not interest you.

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See, this is the first big red flag, pointing toward you just making whack brainwash talk.

I asked you questions and instead of answering them you respond with questions. :laughing:

You see, I give you the chance to identify your intentions and to make this right. If you want your topic to be read by people, you have to be sincere about it. Right now, you seem absolutely insincere and brainwashed, trying to brainwash others into your brainwash.

I repeat my requests and questions.

If your response will contain further question marks, you exposed your true intentions already and this topic will be put where your brainwash tactics belong to: the trash bin.

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He wrote multiple emails with his grievances between 2006 and 2010

He wrote the resignation email the night before Debian Day

As written in many other blogs, it looks like he was thinking about suicide on that night and on Debian Day itself. He then completed the suicide on 20 August 2010.

Nobody can go and ask him to explain these emails now. These are his emails. Nobody is changing the emails to brainwash you.

I never said anything was “changed”. Putting words in someone’s mouth is also one way to brainwash…

I was saying, that your way of talking reeks of brainwashing and insincerity.

As I initially said, I visited the website you provided and there is nothing. There are just mentions of a guy committing suicide. No explanation whatsoever. To this point, I still don’t get the point your are trying to make.

So, you repeat what has happened. But what is your point? Someone committed suicide. What is your point about it?

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The point is that Debian people tell us they have a social contract and commitment to transparency but they are hiding a lot of topics, including this topic.

There is no such thing. Transparency is a synonym for doing nothing. You cant commit to an empty set of activities.

I just cannot fathom how you could not get this very simple point across in a matter of over 2 days and, in case you own the website and authored the posts there, even more so on an entire website. Nowhere have you made this simple point anywhere. I guess, when you know this point beforehand, you can read it out of the posts between the lines, but if you don’t know it as a reader, there’s little way to find out, without lots of guess work…

It’s especially confusing, since you mix up shit like this with actual people getting attacked and surviving attempted murders, plus some weird assumptions about what happened to VLC.
For example, a possible reason for the VLC prohibiition is because of Chinese connections. That said, the actual reasons are not clear. So, stop saying “censored” when you have no clue about the problem.

If you are saying shit like this and it had to take over 2 days for you to say the whole point, then your behaviour is highly suspicious and, to be honest, I’m not surprised at all, if your posts are hidden on other FOSS fora. All you were saying the past 2 days is just gibberish mixed with brainwash tactics, like e.g. your questions as a response to questions, instead of answering those questions.

The reason I let you talk & explain your issue is, because I wanted to give you a chance, since, according to your claims, nobody wants to hear about your issue for whatever reason. I gave you the chance to talk about it, so you get it off your chest.
Though, you claimed it was because of the topic and those evil people who want to hide something.
You know what? That’s not true at all.

It’s not because they want to “hide” your post. It’s because what you are talking about and the blog posts you (if you are the author of the articles on Debian Days) have written is absolute gibberish mixed with random shit, so nobody can even understand what your whole point is. I cannot stress enough, that it took you MORE THAN TWO DAYS for you to get such a simple point across. I mean, come on, seriously?

Now, stop making a victim out of yourself and pretend people on other fora try to hide your posts because of the topic’s brisance. They just removed/hid/ignored your posts, because what you are saying is mostly consisting of utter gibberish.
Additionally, as explained above, you employ highly suspicious brainwash tactics. If that wasn’t already enough of the bad stuff, you also cloned the Debian homepage onto yours(?) and just added those blog posts onto it. Why do you clone the website, in the first place? Do you want it to seem like it’s official or something? This behaviour is not that far away from phishing.

The man who was attacked, Salman Rushdie wrote a book

In open source speak, Iran declared the book to be a Code of Conduct (CoC) violation

Iran asked all their followers to enforce the CoC

The attack was an example of somebody enforcing the Iran CoC on an author

In simpler terms, it was a most violent form of censorship

Whenever you see the words Code of Conduct in a free software community, think of Salman Rushdie

Yes, I actually know a lot about this issue.

It depends on the Code of Conduct and how it is enforced.
First of all, I have never heard of anyone getting killed for violating a FOSS Code of Conduct of any type.
Second of all, violating Code of Conducts means usually going against a single project or company. If you write a book about Islam, then millions of people are against you, not only maintainers and perhaps fans of a project or company.
Third of all, not every Code of Conduct is crap. For example, part of those rules is usually keeping off topic things away and not poking everyone, so people get annoyed over something, just so the annoying poker can then scream & cry about being censored.
So, since you like taking Salman as an example: I will verbally protect Salman all the time, because he has done nothing wrong. But if he would come to a FOSS project and talk about Islam, then it’s off-topic and his posts are legitimately up for removal, simply because they don’t belong to the FOSS project’s repertoire of discussable topics.

Again, this is one of those brainwash tactics. You complect two things, which have not much to do with each other, as I outlined above. Your goal is to make the Conde of Conduct enforcement seem bad, but in reality, all you do is, making the attempted murders on Salman Rushdie seem less evil & bad, than they actually are, because you are making it seem like it’s just as harmless as enforcing a FOSS project’s Code of Conduct.

If you can’t ask hard questions then there are always a small group of bad people who will exploit the silence

In Debian we saw this, the diversity money always goes to the same women. Other volunteers did a lot of work but nobody gave their girlfriends any free flights.

If this happened in a football club or a tennis club, the members would all come to the annual meeting and get very angry at the committee. In an online community those angry voices are hidden using technical means.

“Hard questions”. So, when you get up in the morning, want to start coding on your favourite open source project, the first thing you want to see when logging into your Github account is some madhead screaming about food processing and bad employee pay in South America. I see.

Then why are you spending money there? What? You aren’t? Then what’s the problem? Dishonest people are going to do dishonest shit. Nothing new. It’s how the world works.

Okay, you have no clue about what you are talking about.
Voices are constantly hidden and censored in real offline life. For example, did you count how many Putin critics “disappeared” in the past two decades? They just “disappeared” and “nobody knows” what happened to them…
All this happened completely unrelated to online communities.
Or just look at the USA. Instead of talking about real problems, they talk about first world shit 24/7/365.
People in the USA are for example still brainwashed into believing, that state managed health care is bad. :laughing:
How can the American people be so damn retarded? Yet, many US American citizens believe in shit like this. Some even believe Snowden is a traitor. Maybe some even believe after all these years, that there were “weapons of mass destruction” in the Near Eastern area.
All this does not happen on the internet. It starts in media and people live it every day, offline. Losing a house over a broken toe and giving up all possible privacy, not only thanks to the Patriot Act…

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I just did a
whois putin.community
and the domain is not found. Putin is not pretending to be a community. Therefore, it is not comparable to a group that does pretend to be a community.

Okay, whatever you say.

So, what’s your point of spreading your view on how the Debian community works? What do you want to achieve?

Other people are already starting to ask questions about the same things

Next time one of them gives a speech at a conference there are a whole bunch of people who will ask them questions. It will be really interesting to watch them responding or evading.

So, the online community cannot stop anything, which refutes your earlier claim.

However, you did not answer my question (again).

What do you want to achieve? What’s the point of starting this thread?

Community awareness is a good thing in itself. Each person will decide their own response to this issue. I am not posting it here to demand that people assemble a mob.

Some people see something like this and they simply find a better way to give their time and money. They may be completely silent about their decision. It looks like hundreds of people quit the recurring payments to FSFE after all this nonsense began in 2018. I hope they are now giving that money to better causes and if those causes are worthy, I hope they succeed.

Saturday is the anniversary of this volunteer’s death. I think that is a pretty big thing to remember and commemorate and hope it doesn’t happen again.