How to choose your next Linux distro?

[ernie (Ernest N. Wilcox Jr.)]

Looks good, but as a side note, AUR stands for Arch Users Repository, a resource for community members/users to create Arch packages, and make them available to the Arch community. Arch (or any distribution based on it) with the AUR is no more difficult to use than Arch without it. For myself, I avoid using the AUR because there can be compatibility issues with the older packages found there, and I’m not familiar enough with the package development/updating process to fix any issues I may encounter. Garuda provides the chaotic-AUR (repository), and the packages found there are taken from the AUR, but are more dependable than those found in the AUR because they are tested and approved by the Garuda dev team, and (IIRC) updated as needed, so issues are much less likely.

Ernie

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

@ernie

. Arch (or any distribution based on it) with the AUR is no more difficult to use than Arch without it

You have to install yay, which is not simple and is poorly documented, and, as you say, there can be package clashes because AUR is not tested. To me that means Arch with AUR is more difficult

[ernie (Ernest N. Wilcox Jr.)]

I suppose you’re right. It’s just that when I used the AUR earlier in my Garuda travails, I didn’t encounter any real issues with using packages from there.

Ernie

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

@ernie

when I used the AUR earlier in my Garuda travails, I didn’t encounter any real issues with using packages from there

I think it depends how much you use AUR. I found one issue using it from Artix… a package with missing dependencies.
If you add lots of AUR packages you will eventually get clashes, because they are not checked for mutual compatability.

[Sheila_Flanagan]

@berninghausen

Why do so many find installation so hard?

Hi, @berninghausen after last night, I can say installation via Calamares, etc.? No problem. But I set about trying to use some 32 bit installs just to test on an x64 sys. Started with Alpine. Whoa. You mean I have to type what I want for my country, my timezone, my keyboard, etc.? And that was after first setting up wifi like you would in terminal. Only because I have used so many with the GUI installers did I even understand what I was being asked. But I finally got to one question I had never seen (something about “storing config cache”) and apparently chose the wrong option (chose the live USB?) and it went downhill from there. Needless to say, I dashed that distro and moved onto the next on the list.

Even trying to download Devuan? What? I gotta choose file names? What the heck is the difference between Daedalus and Beowolf? Then opening one of those you again have to choose. I don’t see a Linux noob being able to do this.

Same with Porteus. You did not go to a “download” page and be presented with icons representing which you wanted to download. You get to choose a mirror: from a solid black page with about 10 rows of text. From there, like Devuan, a list of folders containing more folders to make selections from.

Needless to say, by the time I got to Q4OS, I was thrilled to be back in the simpler way of installing distros.

I love a challenge and did enjoy finding out about these other Linux operating systems, but the installer is key if you are going to try one out.

Thanks,
Sheila

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

@Sheila_Flanagan

the installer is key if you are going to try one out.

I might think about a topic on installers. Not an easy exercise. A bit like DE’s… there are personal preferences.
but
the only essential thing an installer does is copy your OS to a disk partition… if they cut out all the crap setup questions it would always work. Do the setup afterwards… a simple copy will boot.

So you thought @berninghausen meant installing an OS. I thought he meant installing packages. Perhapd Bill could clarify?

[Jim2 (Jim K.)]

I seldom see Zorin mentioned around here. I’m not using it anymore, but if I was setting up a Linux system for a newcomer to Linux, I think I’d pick Zorin Core, the free version. I would think it should go at or near the “less challenging” end of your list. Its DE is designed to be more intuitive to a Windows or Mac user. I know they also have a paid “for profit” version, like Red Hat but I used the free version for about a year; I didn’t notice any interference by their business.

[Sheila_Flanagan]

@nevj

if they cut out all the crap setup questions it would always work. Do the setup afterwards… a simple copy will boot.

I agree. I understand this iso could be used anywhere in the world so language and keyboard might matter, but some of the stuff, like do I want LibreOffice, Open Office, or whatever else, really? I’ll do that myself!

I would be much interested in seeing a list of all the distros with different install methods. As I said, I have obviously been consuming too much Calamares as I do not recall much difference between the various methods used until this latest attempt.

It might even be helpful to elaborate on each set of questions or selections (like MX installer does) exactly what each selection results in. Like when in the disk partition section, you can look to the left and read the helpful tips about the boot flags, type of partitions, etc. It helps a new user make an informed decision.

But definitely expound upon the Devuan, et al method of downloading an .iso. When looking around Porteus, in the ‘noob’ forums, a user wanted to download the iso:

New Linux users expect an “icon” driven experience. Even the forum’s responses, to me, did not elaborate on the method needed just to get an .iso of a distro he wanted to try. He did not expect from selecting various drop downs on the website to be taken to a page where mirrors must be selected first.

And if he did make it past that point, I am sure the Windows 95 style folder icons surely confused him.

So think about it and ask everyone’s input. It would be great!

@nevj

So you thought @berninghausen meant installing an OS. I thought he meant installing packages.

[/quote

Yes. From the suggestions from @callpaul.eu , ever ready with the “just reinstall” option and he is correct in this instance. Although there have been times when my system was a mess and I refused to install: I will conquer this issue–always my mantra.

Seriously though, since OP kept trying to resolve the issue with providing steps taken and results, error messages, etc. several suggested reinstalling and ensuring correct selections of all the options. But I think @berninghausen was pointing out the obvious, that it is a simple thing to just do the install again.

Sheila

[ernie (Ernest N. Wilcox Jr.)]

I agree. While many contributors add packages, it’s often true that some don’t take responsibility, and maintain what they contribute with periodic updates. That’s a downside of the AUR, and the primary reason I avoid using packages from it.

Ernie

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

@Jim2

. I would think it should go at or near the “less challenging” end of your list

Based on your comments, I think I will put Zorin near Ubuntu.. thanks
Revised systemd list

Mint
LMDE
MX/Systemd
Peppermint/Debian
Solus
.....
Ubuntu (and variants)
Zorin
Ubuntu with PPA
......
Debian
Fedora 
OpenSUSE (tumbleweed or leap)
.....
NixOS
Arch without AUR
Manjaro
Garuda
Arch with AUR
.......
Gentoo/Systemd

[callpaul.eu (Paul)]

@Sheila_Flanagan

suggestions from @callpaul.eu , ever ready with the “just reinstall” option

Think its more than just that, a few times I have abandonded my first idea of just install linux mint cinnamon because it failed or runs like a dog or has issues, and jumped ship to xfce or LMDE, or 32 bit to get a better result rather than playing with command line. Perhaps because I dont know enough of the linux working commands. OK I waste another hour watching the GUI install run once I have chosen language country user etc but arrive at a working result which is my aim

[berninghausen (Bill Berninghausen)]

@nevj

Perhapd Bill could clarify?

Installing an OS is the only installation I do, unless the OS doesn’t have a few packages I’d like to have–I always install Variety, for example. If an installer is difficult, I abandon the OS. Like buses, there’s another one coming in a few minutes.

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

@berninghausen

Installing an OS is the only installation I do,

OK, sorry, I thought you meant installing packages
Like all things, it gets easier with practice. You get lots of practice.

[Almo]

This is a great discussion. I have three levels for my little one computer test lab one of them is a USB SSD drive that I can install bleeding edge systems such as Pop OS 24.04 which is an alpha release. Second level is a VM which is where I like to install things like Manjaro and other less stable distros to put it kindly. Finally there’s always bare metal for well-behaved systems. I always include Mint/LMDE/MX/OpenSUSE Tumbleweed with SELinux as one of them. I have gradually gotten tired of tumbleweed’s rapid rolling releases so I easily migrated to their Slowroll which I find a great compromise.

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

@Almo

three levels

That is a good way to combine stability with exploring new distros.
I have something similar… one disk with stable distros like MX , Void, Devuan… another disk with distros under test ( currently Artix), and VM for first tries ( like Chimera, Hypetbola,..)
I might add Tumbleweed slowroll to the list

Revised systemd list

Mint
LMDE
MX/Systemd
Peppermint/Debian
Solus
.....
Ubuntu (and variants)
Zorin
Ubuntu with PPA
......
Debian
Fedora 
OpenSUSE (slowroll)
OpenSUSE (tumbleweed or leap)
.....
NixOS
Arch without AUR
Manjaro
Garuda
Arch with AUR
.......
Gentoo/Systemd

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

Time for a summary.
I have tried to combine the systemd and non-systemd tables.
I used a markdown table, but discourse does not seem to be able to render markdown tables
so
I did it in keenwrite and screenshotted it

I am not totally happy with that
If anyone thinks they can fix it , you can use my .md file

| Difficulty   | Systemd distros    | Non-systemd distros |
| :--------    | :---------------   | :------------------ |

| Beginner     | Mint               |                     |
|              | LMDE               |                     |
|              | MX/Systemd         | MX/sysVinit         |
|              | Peppermint/Debian  | Peppermint/Devuan   |
|              | Solus              |                     |
|              |                         |                    |
| Novice       | Ubuntu & variants  |                     |
|              | Zorin              |                     |
|              | Ubuntu with PPA    |                     |
| |   |  |
| Easy         | Debian             | Devuan              |
|              | Fedora             | Antix               |
|              | OpenSUSE slowroll  |                     |
|              | OpenSUSE tumbleweed|                     |
|              | OpenSUSE leap      |                     |
|  |   | |
| Difficult    | NixOS              | Artix               |
|              | Arch without AUR   | Chimera             |
|              | Manjaro            | Void                |
|              | Garuda             | Slackware           |
|              | Arch with AUR      | Hyperbola           |
|              |                    | GUIX                |
|  |   |  |
| Requires     | Gentoo/Systemd     | Gentoo/OpenRC       |
| dedication   |                    |                     |
|  |  | |
| Pro          |                    | LFS                 |
| ------------ | -----------------  | ------------------- |

I wanted the groups spaced, and horizontal lines between them.

Note Only the aligned groups are equivalent across systemd and non-systemd… not individual distros.

The non-systemd world really needs a ‘Linux Mint Devuan Edition’. It would not be difficiult… Peppermint have done it.

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

OK it is fixed.. markdown does not tolerate blank lines in tables

Difficulty	Systemd distros	Non-systemd distros
Beginner	Mint
	LMDE
	MX/Systemd	MX/sysVinit
	Peppermint/Debian	Peppermint/Devuan
	Solus
Novice	Ubuntu & variants
	Zorin
	Ubuntu with PPA
Easy	Debian	Devuan
	Fedora	Antix
	OpenSUSE slowroll
	OpenSUSE tumbleweed
	OpenSUSE leap
Difficult	NixOS	Artix
	Arch without AUR	Chimera
	Manjaro	Void
	Garuda	Slackware
	Arch with AUR	Hyperbola
		GUIX
Requires dedication	Gentoo/Systemd	Gentoo/OpenRC
Pro		LFS

That came from the following .md file

| Difficulty   | Systemd distros    | Non-systemd distros |
| :--------    | :---------------   | :------------------ |
| Beginner     | Mint               |                     |
|              | LMDE               |                     |
|              | MX/Systemd         | MX/sysVinit         |
|              | Peppermint/Debian  | Peppermint/Devuan   |
|              | Solus              |                     |
|              |                         |                    |
| Novice       | Ubuntu & variants  |                     |
|              | Zorin              |                     |
|              | Ubuntu with PPA    |                     |
| |   |  |
| Easy         | Debian             | Devuan              |
|              | Fedora             | Antix               |
|              | OpenSUSE slowroll  |                     |
|              | OpenSUSE tumbleweed|                     |
|              | OpenSUSE leap      |                     |
|  |   | |
| Difficult    | NixOS              | Artix               |
|              | Arch without AUR   | Chimera             |
|              | Manjaro            | Void                |
|              | Garuda             | Slackware           |
|              | Arch with AUR      | Hyperbola           |
|              |                    | GUIX                |
|  |   |  |
| Requires dedication    | Gentoo/Systemd     | Gentoo/OpenRC       |
|  |  | |
| Pro          |                    | LFS                 |

and, strangely, this version does not render nearly as well in 'keenwrite` as it does in discourse?

Anyone want to master tables in discourse?

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

Just to confound the issue even further, the markdown viewer ‘remarkable’ does a much nicer job of rendering that same table

Apparently there are markdowns and markdowns when it comes to tables.

[callpaul.eu (Paul)]

@nevj

Time for a summary

Not sure I am happy with your titles for catégorie as mint, ubuntu, would be suitable for beginning, novice and easy … on use install, update, package management or drivers.

Debian asks too many questions on installation to be in all three.

Ones you missed are xfce mint, and lubuntu … fine on install but package management leaves something to be desired.

Perhaps a better table

Suitability to user

Version. Level 1. Level2. . Level 3. Hard
Mint. X. X. X. X
Puppy. = = X. X
Debian. = = X. X

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

@callpaul.eu

xfce mint

I did not consider DE’s.

Yes the categories are half-baked. ‘Easy’ really means easy with some experience.
Maybe beginner, learner, some experience, …

What do I do with a great distro spoilt by a lousy install procedure?

I lost Alpine somewhere … it belongs in non-systemd novice
Also lost PCLinuxOS… it is non-systemd… not sure where it ranks