I just saw this item on ZDNet

You have pointed out the main reason the Open Source community needs to step up to provide that easy rout to becoming a GNU/Linux user.

Thank you for the good wishes. I agree. We ALL should put our money/effort where it will do the most good. What I’m doing with this discussion thread is searching for the best place to put my effort.


Yes! I couldn’t have said it better :slight_smile:

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. . . and from what I’ve been seeing with recent kernel releases, the situation is improving. There is one thing that GNU/Linux users can do to maintain the momentum. When you come across some incompatible device, contact both the vendor and the manufacturer, asking why they do not offer driver support for the Linux kernel. If enough of us take this simple step, these manufacturers will at least know that there’s a market they have not yet considered and while things won’t improve over night, we will be doing our part to help maintain the forward momentum. At my age, I may not live to see hardware compatibility/support for the Linux kernel become the default as it is in Windows, but hopefully I’ll have contributed my fair share to improving the situation.

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So, no Steve Jobs to say “no”. One only has to look at apps like Darktable and RawTherapee to see how relying upon voluteers provides a need for those volunteers’ work to be included; hence, you have twelve ways of sharpening instead of one or two. Everybody has a suggestion and, without someone willing to say “no”, apps become bottomless pits of functions that only serve to drive away users.

Want more Linux users? Get Adobe to release Lightroom Classic for Linux. Which distro? Pick one or two that manage to comply with some sort of standards so Lightroom doesn’t break constantly. The distros that comply with the standards thrive while those that don’t remain hobbyist toys.

Here’s a little story; take from it what you will. Used to be that macOS had a printing engine that would change monthly. HP, Brother and other mfrs would release drivers that would, within weeks, stop working because Apple would issue a software update. HP and Brother wrned Apple they were going to stop writing drivers for Macs. What did Apple end up doing? They bought CUPS, embraced the standard, provided it free to all comers, and told the printer mfrs that if they wrote CUPS drivers for their printers, Macs would print properly. It worked and continues to work today.

I’d switch over to Linux in a heartbeat if I could get Lightroom, Luminar, Radiant Photo and even some of the lesser-known photo apps working on it without resorting to some oddball Wine emulation (which never works properly for these sorts of apps).

LibreOffice, Thunderbird, a number of web browsers…yep, they work fine. But give me the ability to purchase decent photo editing software and I’d wipe my Lenovo clean of Windows. BTW: I know the word “purchase” is anathema to most Linux users so maybe there’s another reason why Linux isn’t succeeding as the Linux fanbois want.

Finally, don’t even begin to celebrate beating Apple in the Desktop space; Apple doesn’t give a rat’s behind for Desktop computing as it’s only a means to migrate customers over to iOS devices and, more importantly for Apple, services.


I agree that those are the most important items. Spreading awareness might be the most important, but it would be for naught if some of those other problems weren’t solved - well, unless the people we reach would use Linux without those problems solved. Those people aren’t who we’ve been talking about in this thread though, and we could potentially reach them with that same effort anyway.

It absolutely is improving, and when we look back on this discussion a few years from now, it will likely be even better than it is now.

I can’t speak for anyone else but myself, but I would. I am more than willing to pay for a good OS and good applications, especially if they are FOSS. I know FOSS tends to be free-as-in-free-beer even though that is not what the acronym means, but I have thought that the lack of funding in FOSS can cause some problems (and avoids some problems too). I plan to start donating to some projects I use personally soon.

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You interpreted it the wrong way. Ernie meant users disillusioned with Windows.

You are right, it will be an uphill battle, because most Windows users are either happy or
unaware of alternatives.

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Our former Prime Minister, Malcolm Fraser,
“Life wasnt meant to be easy”

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Linux cannot exist on an ntfs filesystem, it needs a filesystem with links and permissions.


Why? That is one of the steps in a Linux install that has to be right, make it easy, just install Linux as a file within Windows.

No!!! I interpreted it the way I meant!! Was i disillusioned when I chose W11 for my wife’s PC build and my own PC build earlier this year? I think not, at least that is my wife’s opinion, and I dare not ? that. Am I still your pen friend!!!

. . . but in the current situation, I have to agree with @pedecker, any GNU/Linux distribution a Windows ‘convert’ attempts to use MUST be very easy for him/her to get started with, otherwise (s)he will revert back to Windows in spite of how disappointing (s)he has become with it.



. . . not to mention that NTFS is proprietary and would require licensing (something I doubt M$ would allow) . . .

Now, unless I misunderstand, you’re talking about something different than running GNU/Linux on the NTFS filesystem. You’re either talking about setting up a virtual machine (in a file) to run under the Windows kernel, or you’re talking about creating a GNU/Linux installation system to be initiated from a file installed on a Windows computer that would overwrite Windows with the content of the distribution so after a reboot, all that remains is the new GNU/Linux distribution. Although I’ve never seen an installer like that, I suspect it’s possible. Please clarify . . .


Neville understands what I’m saying. You’re entitled to your opinion, but this discussion is about finding a way to provide a better/clearer path for those Windows users who want a viable alternative, and to find a way to maintain the momentum we have recently seen in hardware manufacturers supporting the Linux kernel. If you prefer Windows 11, use it, and the more power to you, but what about those other Windows users who don’t feel as you do? Would you have us ignore them? I hope not.



Of course.
BTW, did you see, I just said that Gentoo has the best package system… and no-one objected!

You can actually on a Pi3B or a Pi4B (Windows 10 for ARM) - and apparently it’s free - but why anyone would want to, is beyond me :smiley: … And why anyone would think a Pi Zero would be a worthy target anyway, it’s a single core and only 0.5 GB RAM (now the Pi Zero 2W is a different kettle of fish - I love mine - basically the same as the original Pi Zero W, but is now 64 bit capable, and has 4 cores - but I mostly use my Pi and other ARM based SBCs “headless” - and my current, only Zero 2W is running off my Beepy [its like PocketCHIP but text console only - with a Sharp LCD] in console mode, with BlackBerry keyboard : https://beepy.sqfmi.com/).

I’m actually quite happy with the current market penetration of Linux on the desktop - I don’t care if it doesn’t even get to 10% … I’d be happy if it got to the same level as MacOS (and it’s already exceeding MacOS in the gaming arena)…

Would be nice to have MS Office on Linux, but I can live without it - MS Teams works well on Linux, as does MS Edge (anyone remember MS Internet Explorer 4.x on Solaris? No? I do - it was kinda okay but pointless really) … Please don’t try and tell me Libre Office can do everything that O365 can, because it can’t… I used to miss Corel Draw, but have managed to get my head around most of InkScape, and now it can do multiple page documents - it’s on a par with CorelDraw IMHO.

If I was purely a hobbiest, I’d settle for LibreOffice, but I use my Linux computers for work - and work demands that we use docx and xlsx format (and LibreOffice is pretty good at mangling corporitized docx and xslx files). If I had my way, NOBODY would be using docx - I’d be happy with pure markup or markdown - but that’s fantastical utopia :smiley:

Yes, but how does one get Portage without the whole Gentoo package? Redcore Linux is as close, I have found.

My preference of using W11 or any Windows platform is rather irrelevant, this discussion is about improving Linux, and I am only stating what I know.

Yes I am happy with that. We dont want it shrinking, and we dont want it becoming the biggest player… that brings problems.