You said
Because of all that, I, for now, only see hope in KDE. KDE could be the one and only hero that saves the Linux world. KDE is the reason why I will still try out Linux GUI stuff and will try to make it work with my setup, somehow
There must be some merit in other DTE’s.
KDE to me seems bloated with unwanted applications.
Putting a ‘K’ in front of every app does not constitute integration
All I want is a couple of terminal windows. I can get that from raw X11.
Neville
I totally agree with Neville. KDE is bloated with unwanted applications and removing them can sometimes break the system. KDE is famous for instability and errors. The jumping icons in KDE make me dizzy, Konqueror is the worst browser ever and it’s integration as a file manager (same as Internet Explorer in Windows XP) is just terrible… Of course, everything is a matter of taste and personal preference, so no KDE and no GNOME for me.
Yes, for teenagers like Linus Sebastian, obsessed with video games, Windows is better than Linux. Nothing is absolutely perfect, maybe Windows is better suited for certain things, but at what expense. While Windows keeps deteriorating, Linux is steadily improving. Windows 7 was the last half decent OS. Everything that was released after Win 7 is garbage.
Not sure if you’re a Poe or literally just the most blind and deaf Linux fanboyist on this forum.
Not sure what the reference to Edgar Allan Poe means, but surely when someone finds something good they are entitled to get excited about it.
Poe wrote some great detective stories. People like detective stories because they are about triumph of good over evil, or truimph of order over chaos. Good software is a triumph too.
Its just that people seem to differ about what is good in the software department.
Neville
@Akito
Poes Law
Thanks, showing my age here.
So the moral is, if you are going to express a view, make sure you convey why you hold the view.
Neville
I won’t waste my time explaining why a childish and immature comment does not make sense. I could write an entire essay on why the comment I replied to earlier is just plain stupid. That’s why I don’t even start. I value my lifetime.
Hi Akito,
Clearly we have completely different views on Windows vs Linux and KDE, however everyone is entitled to have their own opinion and I don’t want to argue with you. I was a Windows user (from Windows 95 to 7) much longer than a Linux user (about 3 years). Windows 95, 98SE, 2000, XP and 7 were OK. I completely switched to Linux after Windows 7 stopped receiving security patches and huge disappointment with Windows 10. I agree with you that certain tasks are easier to accomplish in Windows. I have only one monitor and a simple hardware setup, so Linux works much better for me than Windows. My Linux system uses 70% less RAM and 80% less disk space as compared to Windows 10. In Linux I am not bothered by endless updates and reboots. In Linux I can easily customize colors, font size and type, icon set or any individual icon. Windows 10 requires a registry hack to simply change font type! What was easy to do in Windows 7 takes too much effort in Windows 10. I can write a book why Windows 10 is a horrible OS, but you get the idea… I don’t understand why you are defending Windows so hard on FOSS forum. Windows is against and completely opposite to anything FOSS. I am not saying that Linux is perfect, but we are free to choose any distro or build a system from source code. Windows takes away our freedom of choice and ridiculous hardware requirements (like TPM 2.0 modules on Windows 11) harm our environment, by sending millions otherwise capable computers to landfills.
This is a statement, I don’t really understand. You’re always free to install other apps if you don’t like the defaults. Randomly removing apps is certainly not the best idea if you don’t know exactly how things work together. In the end, the “cost” of keeping them is a few MB of hard disk space, so nil.
Otherwise, the statement seems to be based on very early versions of KDE, pre Plasma.
What are jumping icons?
Konqueror is neither the default browser nor the default file manager, and hasn’t been for many years. It is not even part of the default installation any more. Historically it had its merits, though. In the early 2000s, it certainly had the best rendering machine of all browsers. That’s exactly why it initially became the base for Chromium/Google Chrome.
In the end, this whole discussion is a rabbit hole.
Perhaps we could close the ‘rabbit hole’ with a summary
And can I finish with something about enthusiasm. A noted theologian , Monsignor Ronald Knox , wrote a book called Enthusiasm. It was an historical account of the role enthusiasm played in various religious splinter groups. He showed that people tended to become very enthusiastic about particular aspects of religion rather than having a broad acceptance or rejection. Heretics are people who go off the deep end about one thing, and stay normal about all else.
I think the same applies to computer usage. Enthusiasm is fine so long as it does not become narrow in focus and lead to forks. The systemd issue is a good example. The one thing the FOSS group and Linux need is to stick together. There is much to be done.
So , would it be possible for us to define exactly where Linux GUI needs work, and to do it in a way which might motivate some distro makers to take action?
Neville
This discussion has decended into a I like this don’t like that for everyone who likes KDE v Gnome v xfce4 etc. there will always be other that prefer it the other way around. The fact of the matter is all Desktops have advantages and disadvantages. I tend to like Cinnamon and XFCE4 but many other will like KDE or Gnome. To me it’s mute question can I get my work done on any of them, YES!
It just depends which one I like to look at. I will say one thing in Linux I have the choice! That’s not true in Windows or Mac. You must pretty much use what they dictate. My only limitation may be the Hardware I’m using some Desktops require more than the available hardware will support.
So In Linux I’m pretty much free to use whatever DE I choose or not DE at all. And if I survey all the available choices and don’t like what I see, I can always feel free to develop my own.
So lets stop the constant bickering over which DE is best. And concentrate on important stuff Like what I want to do with my Computer and what works best for me. That may not be the same for everyone. Stop trying to force others to use your choice and allow them to make their own.
Ubuntu user since 2015 and I wish I started earlier. I had an experience with Gentoo around 2005 which was awful especially related to wifi settings and maybe a few other things but Linux world is much better nowadays. I never used Ubuntu Mint but it mimics Windows so your transition should be smooth.
If you like to play games, you can try Gamebuntu.
If you explain a little bit more what you want to do with your computer, you may get more suggestions.
As mentioned by others, command line seems scary at first but it is not really. Whenever you want to see real power of Linux systems, you can start reading http://linuxclass.heinz.cmu.edu/doc/tlcl.pdf
I like that. Its like furnishing your house. There are some basic essentials for a UI (or a house) but they come in a tremendous variety of forms. There are also many non-essential decorations. I can live in any house, but I do prefer to be able to personalize my surroundings.
Neville
@Deby
Deby, I think both you and I need to take a look at a newer (Plasma) version of KDE. It is indeed possible as Mina says, that our views are from an older version of KDE. So lets do it.
That said, I think KDE will always be a large, resource consuming UI rather than a cut down one, so it will only suit some people and some hardware.
I think what was biting @Akito was that he sees KDE as the only DTE which is doing something constructive towards a better GUI for Linux, and he did not like to see it getting negative comment.
So lets both take a new look and report back
Regards
Neville
Will be looking forward to your evaluation of KDE. I have found it to be much better these days in resource use. And is now comparable to XFCE4. Let us know what you see.
Yes, this discussion is going nowhere. It is all a matter of taste and personal preferences. Everyone is free to choose OS, DE and software they need or like. Just to answer your questions: “jumping icons” are animated KDE icons that move up and down when you open a KDE app, “unwanted applications” - software that is installed by default with KDE desktop with all dependencies. Because of the dependencies, when you remove the app with dependencies dpkg also removes some of the KDE core packages and breaks the system. Qt vs GTK+ is another subject for discussion with no clear winner. So, let’s agree to disagree on the subject and enjoy the freedom of choice.
Hi Neville,
I did try the “KDE neon” distro: https://neon.kde.org/
For someone who prefers KDE, it is a good distro. I personally, did not find that KDE can do more for me than LXDE at the expense of more RAM and disk space usage. I was not impressed with KDE apps and prefer GTK+ over Qt. I did not like the LXQt desktop either. KDE is in constant development and has the bleeding edge software, which can be good and bad at the same time. Some people are always looking for something new and never satisfied with what they have. I prefer tried, tested and true instead of new and unknown. In the end it all boils down to individual choice.
Regards,
Deby
Good on you Deby,
So you have seen an up-to-date KDE install. That should satisfy some of the comments.
I am having trouble. I tried to install KDE alongside Xfce in my Debian. It failed. I had to undo that. So now I am downloading a full KDE version of MX and I am going to do a hard install of that on a new partition.
I think I can see what you are saying - if people want a huge smorgasboard of apps and everything bleeding edge, then KDE is suitable, but if they want a minimalist more selective setup like you and I then a cutdown desktop is a better choice.
Lets see how I go
Regards
Neville
Not any response to any particular one, but just my two cents worth. When I was in school we never heard about PC’s and hardly remember any transistor theory as they were just coming onto the scene. All we had was vacuum tubes ,resistors, capacitors. etc.
From the time I was out of JR. college until about 20 or so years ago it was work, work, work. For a good long time we kidded about the second shift starting at 5pm and going to maybe 2-3 am and then a good hour drive home, and it all started all over again at 8: am the next day. I did not have a lot of time pick up any courses on the subject PC’s. Now that being said, I am in my 80"S at the present and if i can find a good os that has got a GUI that will help I am all for that. I started with Linux Mint at the demise of Windows XP and I still love my Linux mint that I am running which Is Lm 20. ish. I am currently using. I do not have much knowledge about the command Line but as long as it’s a good GUI involved I can make it. There are a lot of us my age still around and we do the best we can. And long as we have some smart youngsters that will help out when we need it and I will add, This is the best forum that i have ever been on and thanks to all the people that has helped me along the way’
Regards
Topaz115