What is wrong (or right) with using Flatpak or systemd on a Linux system?

I’m not 100% sold on SystemD - but it’s here to stay - and it’s the default init on “enterprise” server distros like RHEL7,8,9, OEL 7,8,9 …
And in my use case, it certainly makes things easier for running services as a user account for a specific user - e.g. ResilioSync - I disable the systemwide daemon, and only run it under my user :

sudo systemctl stop resiliosync.service
sudo systemctl disable resiliosync.service
exit
systemctl --user enable resiliosync.service
systemctl --user start resiliosync.service

I’d hate to really deep-dive and trouble shoot a systemd “unit” configuration… Had to do it recently on a RHEL9 box running docker, one of the “developers” decided to edit /etc/docker/daemon.json and it wouldn’t start again…

I do really miss SysV init - and don’t really understand why it even needed replacing… and it was nearly the same everywhere - e.g. on Solaris and Linux… Whenever I see debates about SystemD - which is now here for good pretty much - until the “next big” thing - it reminds me of this quote from Dr. Strangelove :


Well - I stopped worrying, but I wouldn’t say I “LOVE” SystemD - it’s just there and I’m forced to use it on thousands of Linux servers…

I was also 100% against snap packages around 4-5 years ago - I noticed Chromium (when I still used it) was slow to start up, and realised it was installed as a snap, so I abandoned it and went back to Google-Chrome… But these days? I can’t tell the difference between what’s running from an installed DEB, and what’s running as a SNAP - and - I don’t care :smiley: … I don’t have much installed as FlatPak or AppImage - I think one Linux native game only as a FlatPak - Alderon Games Launcher and Path of Titans (dinosaur simulator / mmo)…

I don’t hardly use Chrome at all these days (maybe just Google Maps in Chrome as it seems to work best here) - I use Brave nearly everywhere (Android, MacOS, Linux on x86_64 and arm64) - and on Linux it installs by adding a repo to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ - which is not quite as bad as a PPA…

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Here’s one unnecessary change that does my head in…

Once upon a time - ALL Linux (and UNIX) systems had a static /etc/resolv.conf file… ALL required DNS settings were stored there… and changes were instant - i.e. change the IP addresses for the resolvers (nameservers) in /etc/resolv.conf and you’re instantly using the new ones every time you make a DNS call (either directly with nslookup or dig, or indirectly - e.g. some daemon or background process).

Now it’s all fractured and all over the place! There’s /etc/dhcpcd.conf, there’s NIC configs all over the place, there’s /etc/netplan, there’s ifcfg-$NIC files in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ (mostly deprecated with RHEL8 and Oracle Linux 8, and later)…

WHY? what was wrong with a static file? Is this something that propagated with Desktop Linux and using DHCP to get that info?

AAAAARRRRGGGHHHHHH!

I’ve got about 50 Linux servers I need to change DNS resolvers on - and they’re alll different distros and releases - and it’s different on all of them!

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I seem to remember noting that resolv.conf was no longer static… ie the OS wrote on it. Some also have resolv.conf.d. directory.

I am with you… there are too many network systems.

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I have seen it update snaps without any help from me. It does it on some kind of schedule.

Copilot is quoting itsfoss.com!

Ubuntu automatically updates Snap packages four times a day by default. The system checks for updates in the background, ensuring that installed Snap applications stay up to date. You can manually check the update schedule using:

snap refresh --time

If you want to change the update frequency, you can modify it with:

sudo snap set system refresh.timer=6:00-8:00,20:00-22:00

This would schedule updates between 6-8 AM and 8-10 PM. You can also manually update all Snap packages anytime using:

sudo snap refresh

Let me know if you need help tweaking your Snap settings! :rocket:

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At the risk of sounding like an ideologue, I’ll channel my inner Stallman and say that the open source focus of Flatpak has real appeal to me.

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Hi @MHS_Jenkins ,
Can you explain what you mean.
Does Flatpak make source access easier in some way?

What appeals to me about Flatpak is that it has a mechanism for de-duplicating downloads of libraries when you install multiple Flatpaks. That makes the size objections disappear. Snap does not do that… each Snap is independent and self contained so you end up with multiple copies of libraries. Not sure what Appimage does.

Regards
Neville

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Oh I meant that the code that runs Flatpak is open source and accessible for review and development. Snap has some proprietary closed-source code in the back end.

De-duplication is a big draw of Flatpak as well, but again I’ve become a FOSS purist in my early middle age.

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That is a big minus for Snap

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Here’s what I’m having to do with RHEL 8, 9 and OEL 8 systems using NetworkManager :

# create the override config file :
echo "[main]" > /etc/NetworkManager/conf.d/90-dns-none.conf
echo "dns=none" >> /etc/NetworkManager/conf.d/90-dns-none.conf
  
# Backup existing /etc/resolv.conf file
cp /etc/resolv.conf /etc/resolv.conf.$(date '+%Y%m%d')
 
# Delete “Generated by NetworkManager" line :
sed -i 's/\#\ Generated\ by\ NetworkManager//' /etc/resolv.conf
 
# Change DNS resolver IP Addresses :
sed -i 's/99\.98\.100/99\.98\.101/' /etc/resolv.conf
sed -i 's/99\.99\.100/99\.99\.101/' /etc/resolv.conf
# above are "furphied" / redacted - I'm including the last three octets deiiberately - in ALL cases - the last octet is the same for both DNS resolvers...  and "to be sure, to be sure..."

# restart NetworkManager :
systemctl reload NetworkManager
# verify dns=none in the NetworkManager config :
NetworkManager --print-config

# Test :
nslookup $HOST1
nslookup $HOST2
nslookup $HOST3
# to verify they're using at least one of the new DNS resolver IP addresses for queries

I originally started writing the above “playbook” in the Notes App on MacOS - PEZZO DI MERDA! It was putting “smart” (dumb more like!) quotes in without my consent… I HATE THAT!

A lot of “younger” IT people eschew nslookup in favour of dig - not me - I find the output from “dig” to be convoluted and too verbose to quickly scan… Also - I’ve never YET ONCE come across a UNIX or Linux system that didn’t have nslookup installed - and “nslookup” is pretty ubiquitious everywhere - even in Microsoft land…

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It is for me at least, but I’ve become a lot more dogmatic about FOSS/open source software over the last few years. To each their own as always.

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My understanding is that the Snap format itself and the software to produce Snaps is open source. Like MHS_Jenkins said, the Snap store is not. I don’t have a problem with that, but I understand if it rubs someone the wrong way. The source to the Apple Store or the Google Play store or to Amazon is not open source, yet we all (almost all) still use them.

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In contrast to that the Debian repo driver program is open source

" Yes, the program that drives the Debian repository is open source. Specifically, the Debian repository itself and the tools used to manage it are all part of the larger Debian project, which is dedicated to free and open source software. This means the code is available for anyone to view, modify, and distribute, reflecting the Debian project’s core principle of free software."

That came from Google AI.

So is the Void repo

" Yes, the X Binary Package System (XBPS) that drives the Void Linux repository is open source. It is developed and managed by the Void Linux team and is hosted on GitHub GitHub - void-linux/xbps: The X Binary Package System (XBPS). XBPS is a fast and flexible package manager, designed and implemented from scratch for Void Linux. "

So Flatpak, Debian and Void ard all open. Gentoo is too

We need someone to reverse engineer the snap store and produce an OS version.

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Yes, but probably so are the Ubuntu repos. Just not the snap store.

It might be that they would like to make some money from all the investments they’ve made in open source. As far as I know, they are not charging for anything in the Snap store. Copilot says they are not charging at this point. However, since they control the store, they could introduce fees or monetization options in the future.

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This is one reason I don’t use Ubuntu. They have already a closed app store like Apple. Next they will introduce some fees to get something extra.

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Paying would not bother me if the product quality were right.

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Dont think many would agree, we all like somethings for nothing. At what price ?

I was offered a deal by a big provider to write apps to put on the store for which they would pay me 1 cent for every one sold at 10 euros so they made 9,99… I said no.

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Yes, but I would pay a fair price for a superior software product, if I needed it.
Software is different… we have had the GNU reformation which put
reasonable software into everyone’s hands for free. We dont want to give that up.
I dont think paying for some special app that is clearly superior and is needed would break our FOSS world
but
We dont want blanket charges for side-issues like access to repos or maintenance support, that are really ways of subverting the free software licence.

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Interesting that people still actually pay for inferior or equally capable stuff for Windoze when there is a plethora of really great alternatives from the greater Linux FOSS platform.

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Example for you …

Libre office is free on linux mint (i suspect the same on other linux versions but not checked)

If you want it from apple store or microsoft store you pay around 10 euros.

If you go to their web site direct you can download for free, but they ask for a contribution, wonder how many do that. Also on both apple and windows unless you unlock the store control you are forced to pay.

Mint survives on donations, every month they have a list of who and how much. Not sure the income against costs for them, and they are one of the more popular, consider those at the bottom of the distrowatch list for income or donations.

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You can install any package from the Ubuntu repositories using APT. Just search for the package “apt search ‘package’”, and then install it “sudo apt install ‘package’”.

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