Which Office for Linux is most compatible with MS Office?

Kerry · November 14, 2024, 11:07pm

Have you considered using Docker, you could just spin up a container and use your web browser to edit, make anything you like. Here is a list.

Key points about office containers in Docker:

Popular options:
Some popular Docker images for office applications include "linuxserver/wps-office" (WPS Office) and "onlyoffice/documentserver" (OnlyOffice), which provide a web-based interface to edit documents, spreadsheets, and presentations.

You could probably run Win11 in a docker container in Linux i’m running docker compose but you can install docker-desktop or Virtualbox to run windows in a vm.

nevj · November 14, 2024, 11:40pm

Hi Kerry,
I tried Windows 10 in virt-manager. It works but it is slow. I found Win7 faster so I use it in virt-manager, but only when I have to use Windows.

I dont think that will work. Docker is Linux thing. A container is just an environment without a kernel, it uses the host’s kernel.
I dont think Win could run on a linux kernel?

I think what you first suggested, …putting a linux word processor in a container is a good option. It would make it portable and would package it with any special dependencies.

A lot of home users have no experience with docker or any variety of containers.
It would be a learning curve.
There is a thing called distrobox which makes docker easy for beginners.

Regards
Neville

Kerry · November 15, 2024, 12:39am

You might find this helpful, take a look at this, you can also run MacOS as well. The instuctions are clear and easy to understand…you can just use the run command which is listed or use the docker-compose.yml to add usr, passed, extra drives etc. I thought the same thing until I started using docker-compose you can run so much many different types of servers, media servers, os’s and use and automated proxy server that will auto add ssl certs for you using this or something similar.

Traefik
GitHub - traefik/traefik: The Cloud Native Application Proxy

nevj · November 15, 2024, 1:02am

Thanks, I need to understand that, I thought it was not possible.
Will give it a try

I think it must use some sort of VM inside the container, to provide an interface between Windows OS and Linux system calls.

nevj · November 15, 2024, 10:42am

@Kerry ,
I gave it a try,
Here is the CLI log

docker run -it --rm -p 8006:8006 --device=/dev/kvm --cap-add NET_ADMIN --stop-timeout 120 dockurr/windows

Unable to find image 'dockurr/windows:latest' locally
latest: Pulling from dockurr/windows
0285d69bcdbd: Pull complete 
aa47c5e49a2f: Pull complete 
6f29b31a0e36: Pull complete 
257633a6b3f8: Pull complete 
e2fc7e597d97: Pull complete 
d756229d396b: Pull complete 
706dedf4a2f4: Pull complete 
Digest: sha256:ebc8b5fa625426529446c8160a0e69e4e6704cb8f42f20b2ab68a74ece355071
Status: Downloaded newer image for dockurr/windows:latest
❯ Starting Windows for Docker v4.04...
❯ For support visit https://github.com/dockur/windows
❯ CPU: Intel Core TM i7 3930K | RAM: 60/63 GB | DISK: 283 GB (ext4) | KERNEL: 6.6.58_1...

❯ Requesting Windows 11 from the Microsoft servers...
❯ Downloading Windows 11...


BdsDxe: failed to load Boot0002 "UEFI QEMU QEMU HARDDISK " from PciRoot(0x0)/Pci(0xA,0x0)/Scsi(0x0,0x0): Not Found
BdsDxe: loading Boot0001 "UEFI QEMU DVD-ROM QM00013 " from PciRoot(0x0)/Pci(0x5,0x0)/Sata(0x0,0xFFFF,0x0)
BdsDxe: starting Boot0001 "UEFI QEMU DVD-ROM QM00013 " from PciRoot(0x0)/Pci(0x5,0x0)/Sata(0x0,0xFFFF,0x0)
❯ Windows started succesfully, visit http://localhost:8006/ to view the screen...


^C❯ Received SIGINT, sending ACPI shutdown signal...
❯ Waiting for Windows to shutdown... (1/110)
❯ Waiting for Windows to shutdown... (2/110)
❯ Waiting for Windows to shutdown... (3/110)
❯ Shutdown completed!
[nevj@trinity Dockur-win]$

It did win11 by default
You get an install screen

and after several reboots it says to access the container via port 8006
using the browser, so in firefox

http://localhost:8006/

and I get

so it is using QEMU, and has firefox inside qemu and win11 viewed on port 8006.

I had no idea what to do in Win11, so I stopped it… killed the tab and then used CtrlC to stop the container.

Then I could not work out how to restart the container. … if I use the original run statement it starts a download again. … I think I need docker start containername… look into that tomorrow.

It did Win 11 by default. There are lots of other options

I noticed one thing… it is more responsive than my Win7 in a VM.
Very interesting .
I wish someone else who uses Win would give it a try… you need to know how to drive docker.
I am personally more interested in trying the MacOS container.

nevj · November 16, 2024, 10:54am

The container would not start again because it was built with

docker run -it --rm -p 8006:8006 --device=/dev/kvm --cap-add NET_ADMIN --stop-timeout 120 dockurr/windows

The --rm parameter tells it to remove the container automatically when it is stopped

I tried again with docker compose instead of the run statement
I edited the compose.yml file to choose Win 7 Enterprise

services:
  windows:
    image: dockurr/windows
    container_name: windows
    environment:
      VERSION: "7e"
    devices:
      - /dev/kvm
    cap_add:
      - NET_ADMIN
    ports:
      - 8006:8006
      - 3389:3389/tcp
      - 3389:3389/udp
    stop_grace_period: 2m

and then
docker compose up
it downloads and installs, much faster than win11

That is more like the Win that I know

Now stop it
docker stop b33bbb9a0c1b
and Win 7 shuts down
Now start it
docker start b33bbb9a0c1b
and I get Win7 back in my browser tab.

OK, I think I can manage that.
BTW that b33bbb9a0c1b is thecontainer number

[nevj@trinity Dockur-win]$ docker ps -a
CONTAINER ID   IMAGE             COMMAND                  CREATED          STATUS                      PORTS                                                                                                                             NAMES
b33bbb9a0c1b   dockurr/windows   "/usr/bin/tini -s /r…"   17 minutes ago   Up 2 minutes                0.0.0.0:3389->3389/tcp, :::3389->3389/tcp, 0.0.0.0:8006->8006/tcp, 0.0.0.0:3389->3389/udp, :::8006->8006/tcp, :::3389->3389/udp   windows
.....

You can use numbers or names to refer to containers in docker commands.

OK, Now I want to try MacOS
and
I want to see if I can use distrobox instead of docker to run these containers… because most people would find distrobox easier than docker.
`

daniel.m.tripp · November 17, 2024, 1:22am

Is this actually “docker” when it needs kvm and/or qemu? It doesn’t seem to be a proper “container” if it’s using a hypervisor… e.g. FreeBSD jails and Solaris Zones don’t resort to using a hypervisor…

I made the mistake of trying to install docker (not from Pop or Ubuntu repos) on my Pop!_OS and trying this - but - it wouldn’t run 'cause I don’t have KVM hypervisor (I have VirtualBox hypervisor only). And after that - took me a bit to figure out how to remove it :

root@titan:/var/lib/apt/lists# cat download.docker.com_linux_debian_dists_bookworm_stable_binary-amd64_Packages|grep Package|uniq|awk '{print $2}'
containerd.io
docker-buildx-plugin
docker-ce-cli
docker-ce-rootless-extras
docker-ce
docker-compose-plugin
docker-scan-plugin
root@titan:/var/lib/apt/lists# apt remove containerd.io docker-buildx-plugin docker-ce-cli docker-ce-rootless-extras docker-ce docker-compose-plugin docker-scan-plugin

I may try this on my Ubuntu 24.10 laptop though… I assume you already had kvm installed (@nevj )?

What’s a real PITA is that in Ubuntu based distros “apt install docker” does NOT install the CLI / TTY binaries - so you think you’ve installed it - but YOU HAVEN’T! So you have to jump through a hoops in order to be able to run “docker compose et cetera”.

This is very interesting however - and I’m keen to have a go…

nevj · November 17, 2024, 1:31am

I was not aware Pop was without KVM… I thought it was in all linux kernels?

Yes, this procedure certainly uses QEMU… and therefore most likely KVM…
I have not fathomed exactly how it uses QEMU, but it is obviously needed to map Win system calls into Linux system calls.

I would like to see what you can do with this… it looks to be a better way of running Win(or Macos) than using VM.
I have no idea how to get software into Win so I cant really test it , but it is responsive on my machine( 2nd gen i7)

What’s a real PITA is that in Ubuntu based distros “apt install docker” does NOT install the CLI / TTY binaries - so you think you’ve installed it - but YOU HAVEN’T

and in Debian the package is docker.io, not docker… watch that.
Maybe Ubuntu is like Debian?

daniel.m.tripp · November 17, 2024, 3:29am

Just 'cause it’s in the kernel - doesn’t necessarily mean it’s available to use…

I’d imagine installing Oracle VirtualBox probably masks it - or does something anyway… VirtualBox hooks itself into the VT/X amd-V hypervisor…

Hence why I want to try this on a machine that’s never had VirtualBox installed…

nevj · November 17, 2024, 7:52am

I think in Ubuntu you need docker.io package
plus qemu of course…

In Void, docker, docker-cli and docker-compose are 3 separate packages.

nevj · November 17, 2024, 9:44am

I tried the macos container

Same procedure
Make a work directory

mkdir Dockur-mac
cd Dockur-mac

Pull the git repo

git init
git pull https://github.com/dockur/macos

Then run docker compose

docker compose up

and it downloads and installs
use the browser on
http://localhost:8006/
What you see first is

I tried to get a terminal going

Well , it is a terminal, but I can barely read the font size and it will not change.

BTW there is a warning
“by installing Apple’s macOS, you must accept their end-user license agreement, which does not permit installation on non-official hardware. So only run this container on hardware sold by Apple, as any other use will be a violation of their terms and conditions.”

I am not sure whether emulated Apple hardware counts, so be careful.
I think I will leave this to the Mac experts like @daniel.m.tripp

[nevj@trinity Dockur-mac]$ docker compose down
[+] Running 2/2
 ✔ Container macos             Removed                                                                    0.2s 
 ✔ Network dockur-mac_default  Removed                                                                    0.1s 
[nevj@trinity Dockur-mac]$

That cleans it up… it auto deleted the container.

nevj · November 17, 2024, 9:55am

There are some other interesting containers here

windows-arm
samba
casa
umbrel
tor

There may be some use for containers in a home system after all?

daniel.m.tripp · November 17, 2024, 11:03am

So port 8006 is some kinda VNC right?

nevj · November 17, 2024, 11:09am

It seems to be.
That is one of the ways qemu gets a video display

" The web-viewer is mainly meant to be used during installation, as its picture quality is low, and it has no audio or clipboard for example.

So for a better experience you can connect using any Microsoft Remote Desktop client to the IP of the container, using the username Docker and by leaving the password empty."

So there are other ways.

callpaul.eu · November 17, 2024, 3:38pm

Think a one off on home machine is unlikely to bring down the wrath of apple … ipolice tend to not look too close, too much work for icourt, ijudge, lawyers

Gary · November 17, 2024, 3:56pm

Typo there Paul.
Should be ilawyer’s.

Gary · November 17, 2024, 4:20pm

I didn’t know about docker so tried it in Zorin which is Ubuntu based.
Had to jump through some hoops to get it working.
Just wanted to see how it compares to using a VM.
The laptop I use is reasonable spec, 11th gen i5 and 16GB ram.
I normally use virt-manager or gnome boxes for VM’s.

Can’t see any benefit using docker, it doesn’t work any better than a VM for me.
Maybe I didn’t set things up properly but did get W11 running in a browser and installed a couple of apps.

Docker may be ok for some but in my case not worth bothering with.

callpaul.eu · November 17, 2024, 4:33pm

Thanks igary … the ispell missed it
iadvocate and ilegal noted

Gary · November 17, 2024, 5:13pm

ithank you for the ireply iPaul.

To be serious, I was on a computer forum years ago where a moderator stated he would never have i anything.
Obviously meaning apple products.
He didn’t state the reason why.

callpaul.eu · November 17, 2024, 5:52pm

I am biased as I worked teaching at a college where we bought macs for the students, then when I was teaching at uni I set up a classroom especially with apple, to teach desktop publishing extremely popular had to run evening courses to get near the demand.
Afterwards I went to work for apple, 5 great years.
That was before imac, around the time of Next just before jobs returned
I currently use a macbook pro, but with linux as the mac os expired and not possible to upgrade. In my workshop I have 2 of the original powerbook portable macs, 2 years ago I donated a se30, lc 475, and a mac power pc to a museum for restoration projects, suspect the powerbooks will go the same way.