Then you need to broaden your horizons and try Gentoo and see how far you get with “no-hands-on” approach!!!
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You are far from being an ordinary user, Daniel. Trades people make good computer users… my family were blacksmiths.
I think trades poeple are trained to think out a problem rather than follow a book of rules.
In all education one first has to learn a heap of facts, and then secondly learn how to apply them. Computer education is no different… struggling users are of two types… either they dont want to learn anything or they have never been shown how to apply knowledge.
‘How to’ documents are no substitute for the understanding that comes with proper education. They are a substitute for thinking it out for yourself.
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And this is not arcane… how?
Thing with the Linux CLI vs the Windows CLI is that the Linux CLI is actually well documented. For this knowledge regarding Windows you need to look exactly where?
It’s actually quite possible to become an advanced CLI user in Linux, while it’s neigh impossible to do the same with Windows, exactly because the documentation is nowhere to be found.
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And that is why I document all commands, Linux and Windows!!!
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I dont think i am capable now of doing that in windows and really cannot see why I would.. if I try really hard could guess some lines but nothing worth doing. Perhaps chkdsk but not sure it would work.
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Same. The only thing I can do is winget update and wsl enter.
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I stopped using Windows a long time ago. Too buggy, unstable and malware.
I stopped using the Linux CLI a while ago, but, if need be, I can quickly find my way. There’s good documentation out there and the manual pages are frequently helpful enough.
Systemd is more of an issue, though. I find those unit files more complicated than the simple bash scripts of runit in Void Linux. On top of that systemd is littered with solutions looking for a problem; journald is an example of that, and a bad one at that.
I have never tried s6 or s6-66. So, I’m curious: what do people think of them?
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s6-66 is definitely a contender to replace systemd in complicated server systems. It has all the functionality of systemd without those abhorrent invasive parts like journals.
Dinit is simpler than runit. It has config files instead of scripts… and all its configs are in one place, not spread all over /etc and /var. I would say dinit is the choice for home systems. To try dinit use Artix or Chimera.
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Could you post an example of a dinit config file?
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From my Artix installation, the config file for sshd
trinity:[nevj]:/etc/dinit.d$ cat sshd
type = process
command = /usr/bin/sshd -D
smooth-recovery = true
depends-on = ssh-keygen
depends-on = network.target
before = login.target
The config files are all in one directory
trinity:[nevj]:/etc/dinit.d$ ls -F
acpid cupsd 'getty@tty4' lvm2 rpcbind
avahi-daemon dbus 'getty@tty5' lvm-monitor rsync
bluetoothd dbus-pre 'getty@tty6' lvmpolld sshd
boot.d/ dhcpcd git lvmpolld-pre ssh-keygen
config/ dmeventd git-pre mdadm statd
connmand elogind haveged metalog wpa_supplicant
cronie 'getty@tty1' lightdm mount.d/
cryptsetup 'getty@tty2' lightdm-pre nfs-server
cryptsetup-early 'getty@tty3' logind ntpd
The two subdirectories boot.d and mount.d contain links to things that must start at boot time. The config directory contains more .conf files for things like consoles and network.
That is all. No links except those special ones in boot.d and mount.d.
Another example config file for bluetoothd
trinity:[nevj]:/etc/dinit.d$ cat bluetoothd
type = process
command = /usr/lib/dinit/dbus-wait-for -s -f 4 -n org.bluez /usr/lib/bluetooth/bluetoothd
smooth-recovery = true
logfile = /var/log/dinit/bluetoothd.log
depends-on = dbus
depends-on = local.target
before = login.target
ready-notification = pipefd:4
Most of them just give the command to start the daemon, where the logfile is, and any dependencies.
In Artix , you would rarely have to write a config file… its packages install the config file if they are for a daemon needing a config file.
system/openssh 10.0p1-4 [installed]
SSH protocol implementation for remote login, command execution and file
transfer
system/openssh-dinit 20230906-3 (dinit-system) [installed]
dinit service scripts for openssh
There are the 2 packages for openssh. The dinit config files are a separate package from the binaries.
The only thing you see running is dinit and the daemons
trinity:[nevj]:/etc/dinit.d$ ps ax | grep dinit
1 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/dinit
The init process is called dinit, not init.
There are no supervisory processes like in runit.
You can have user-controlled services in dinit. The config files for these are in $HOME/.config/dinit.d.
There is also /lib/dinit.d which seems to contain templates.
Here is where dinit comes from
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That’s simple. I do appreciate that it’s simple to discern what’s what. You don’t need a manual page to understand what’s happening.
If I ever distrohop again, I think I’ll head over to Artix with dinit.
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There may be other distros offering dinit soon.
I would bet on Antix or MX. Less likely Void or Gentoo.
and beware
It is one thing to offer dinit
It is another thing to configure all your packages to support it.
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Precious comment from the r/LinuxSucks forum on Reddit:
I think the thing that sucks the most about Linux is that mostly when it does suck it’s your fault so you can’t be mad at someone else. Like if windows update screws you over you can be annoyed without having to take responsibility or having to do any work to prevent the issue in the future.
I like Linux but I get the issue a little bit. I’m not an anarchist because I’m like I don’t want to participate in community decision making about how the fucking drains work, I want to vote for some guy to do that and when the drains don’t work I wanna be mad at that guy about it.
But like the problem with Microsoft is that I don’t want a chain of decision makers making decisions about the drains completely unaccountable to me and ultimately only accountable to very wealthy shareholders who don’t give a shit about me and my drain so it’s gotta be Linux.
Not clear exactly what is meant by a “drain” here, any other English speakers familiar with the parlance?
So Linux leaves you with no-one to blame but yourself.
Interesting… but only about 95% true… updates occasionally fail and it is not your fault.
The reason it is never your fault in Windows ( and Android) is that you can not do anything to the system. Immutable Linuxes should be the same. A locked down OS protects users from themselves.
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That’s why I have so much fun with my 15-year-old rig, whose NVRAM is as worn out as my 1970s bellbottoms or 1980s LL Bean coat that I keep just to convince people I have zero shares in MSFT.
When I convince it to load 2025 OSes like MX 25, or Pop_OS Cosmic Beta, I get an outsized satisfaction knowing I’ve saved 3-4 hrs versus installing Windoze 11, and am preserving what little is left of my online identity and privacy.
So what is Almo doing with the Stock Options earned 10 years ago in his Microsoft years? Guilt trip, I guess, but giving cash to Electronic Frontier Foundation at least makes me feel there are forces watching (and even sometimes keeping in check) the Microsoft/Apple/Amazon/Google/Facebook mega-monopolies in this fair country I call home.
Long live Linus, Linux and FOSS!
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I think you hit the nail on the head. Yet, we want this user to install a new operating system when they probably don’t even know what a disk partition is. They don’t know how to backup / recovery the system they have.
Don’t ask me to work on or repair a car’s engine. Don’t ask me to sail a boat. I do not know how to do these things.
Yet we asking “Most users” who know nothing about how the system works to dive in and work on it. Very high expectations on our part I would say.
I may not have made the jump to Linux if I hadn’t had a technical (computer) background.
PS: Sorry Sheila. I know you were replying to someone else note about a virus, but the thread is about Win users being difficult to switch to Linux. Your comment about most users not knowing about the PC system seem to me a very good reason a person would be very reluctant to install a new OS.
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In an effort to help some Windows users convert to Linux I put together a step by step set of instructions to help them with the task.
You can read it here:
I Hope this can help some Windows users.
Thanks
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Good to read your guide, not to critique what you wrote, but perhaps adding a few screen shots would help, pictures say a thousands words.
Similar to
But an interesting choice of linux version.
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To you for putting together a guide for user to switch over to Linux @Maybl8.
My only comment is I have never seen Manjaro on the short list of best Linux for beginners.
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I will consider that. That is a good idea.
You are correct however I look at it differently for a couple of reasons. I have used Manjaro for a couple of years and there is good support on their forum for beginners. Also jumping into any Linux version there is a learning curve that the user must take some responsibility for. With my instructions they will have a dual boot system (providing all goes well) which they can take their time to learn while weaning off of Windows.
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