Hence the need for the mind control device.
You should worship Linux. You should eat, drink, and breathe Linux. Anything less than that is not ok. Now, bow to the altar of the Linux desktop and sacrifice your firstborn to the gods of FLOSS. 
2 Likes
You do that, I will cheer you on!!!
1 Like
I think those are already out there.
There were other really good resources but, unfortunately, they appear to be obsolete.
2 Likes
I wouldnât go that far. It is encouraging that Microsoft has tried to incorporate Windows Services for UNIX and now WSL. Then again, unfortunately, they could drop them just as easily like theyâve done for SFU and Windows Subsystem for Android. If a user wants to run FLOSS on Windows, there are ways to do it. I find many of the FLOSS options are more stable than some of the commercial Windows software options. Sites like https://portableapps.com/ are a good third party route that doesnât rely on Microsoft supplying the support to run FLOSS on Windows. Portable apps also avoid the Windows registry and are easy to move from one Windows system to another or run from a flash drive which is an added bonus.
4 Likes
I can help with that!
That is a useful collection of information.
2 Likes
And this is exactly why the average Windows user wonât come to Linux.
The âscaryâ CLI is considered most important. So much so all other applications are snowed under.
We need a quality listing of GUI/TUI applications. CLI applications are already known by the Linux users to who they matter.
5 Likes
You are bypassing the question. CLI matters to all Linux users, even new users ex Windows.
Windows users are difficult to convert to CLI use , not to Linux.
It is a myth that one can use Linux without CLI. One can not even do the install without typing something. One can not login without typing. Typing is an essential skill.
4 Likes
I use linux every day and never need CLI
I have done over 300 clients to Linux mint and never taught any of them cli
They donât need it. Donât use it .
Only time is if it goes wrong and on those rare occasions they come back to a technician who does it. But even then itâs just a few commands
Or is this just because I use linux mint which is so good reliable nothing else matters
3 Likes
I can live perfectly without the CLI. Linux Mint functions perfectly without it â even though itâs available.
CLI is not equal to text entry. I would not hand a newcomer a Gentoo iso and say to them âitâs easy; just follow the instructions!â And then wonder why they run away screaming.
Yet, this is exactly what a lot of people here seem to think is a good idea to do. And then they wonder: âhow to convert Windows users to Linux.â Well, not by telling them they need to do all kinds of stuff on the CLI.
Certainly, all kinds of power users might be interested, but Mr. Average? Heâll stick with Windows or maybe MacOS, exactly because of this blind attitude.
Yes, I know: the CLI is more efficient in lots of situations. That wonât convince Mr. Average, who just sees âthat diificult command lineâ.
Question: who do you guys wish to attract? In case itâs the power user, provide them with a clear path to learn as much as possible. If itâs the regular user, provide them with a clear path to get them up and running as quickly as possible with as little as possible to learn.
6 Likes
LMDE inherits this property from Debian.
Mostyl I do it so as well.
When it comes to scripting, or some sysamin tasks, I prefer CLI.
CLI commands are easily scriptable, clicks and other inputs on GUI not so well.
And there are cases when CLI is simply much more efficient - those are not for the average Joes though.
I wouldnât expect a newcomer to administer a headless stuff running on a PiâŠ
Only clicking, mouse dragging, etc.
The rest comes later, or maybe never.
My wife learned how to use Debian with Cinnamon DE in 2 days couple years ago. But she wonât be comfortable with CLI even today. My oldest son learned it too, but he now greps some csv files with mutiple filters before feeding data into some of his R script. And he is really proficient in genetics, not in shellscripting, still I donât expect him to find a proper way to run some widows-only image processing and displaying software of a microscope via WINE, but Iâm here to help. 
So the scale on Windows |--------> Linux with CLI
is not a 1 bit black and white, but decent grayscale.
3 Likes
Excellent question!
I think everyone!
But most of them are just unskilled average users (not looking down on them).
They need (some) help to start, and some motivation.
When it comes to helping them, be patient with them!
I can give only some few motivation to convert, and thatâs via money.
I refuse to install pirated software, and lways mention Linux as an alternative.
Even for Windows I always mention the free (and the paid but more affordable) and (crossplatform!!!) alternatives.
Choosing and proficiently learning a crossplatform application hugely decreases the pain caused by a conversion to Linux later.
I do this 5 to 10 times a year, as I donât run a computer related business, just help some buddies, relatives, and few people from the church occassionally.
2 Likes
When I talk about linux to windows users i demo lmde only and show there machine running windows against my own desktop linux machine which has hard disk, 4 gb memory and is 15 years old.
I start mine into google for example then show windows google. Except for the top right colours of cross to close. Or libre office same screens no big difference.
I cheat by starting mine first it gets to the user page before there windows machine. So mine looks faster.
Having used the menu button, then show the desktop again different colours and a slight different position.
Add a printer, automatic, updates connection to wifi. No big deal
Never show cli in either windows or linux.
5 Likes
And this is why I donât care one way or the other for Linux to become more popularâŠ
And @callpaul.eu stated - he, nor his clients, donât need to break out the CLI in Linux Mint⊠But - at least with Linux Mint or LMDE - you STILL have access to a decent shell environment if thatâs your âthingâ (itâs my thing ).
But - if fear of the CLI scares you - by all means : go back to Windows (or MacOS).
Love of the shell is why I stick with Linux and MacOS - Windows PowerShell can be powerful in the right hands, but it still feels cumbersome and ugly (and primitive) compared to bash or tcsh or zsh⊠MacOS has ZSH natively - itâs UNIX running on RISC with M1 and later âApple Siliconâ processors⊠Never saw the point in Hackintosh (I did it once) - why go to all that effort to get a UNIX O/S on x86 hardware - when thereâs a UNIX like Linux you can run on commodity x86 hardware⊠But Apple Silicon âarm64â sold me⊠And - likewise - I donât see the point trying to get Linux to run on Apple Silicon - itâs already got a native UNIX (Linus Torvalds was using an M1 or M3 system to compile the Linux kernel for arm64 alongside his Massive Threadripper desktop).
2 Likes
Once I had here an aold laptop of a grandmaâ 
The symptoms it showed, hence I got it to âhealâ in a way that it was painfully slow.
It had Windows 10 home on it running from a HDD, the filesystem was awfully fragmented. That laptop had Window 8 originally, and it was upgraded a dozen times unti it reached its final state.
I measured, from pressing the power button (the grandma always switches it completely off) to reach Firefox and load a startpage it took more than 5 minutes as I remember.
I have my measurements noted somewhere, I could look it up, if that matters.
Debian with XFCE did the very same within 90 seconds (from power button to be able to load Firefox and open a startpage).
That grandmaâ choosed Linu afterwards, and when upgraded the HDD to an SSD, the 90 seconds went down to 54 seconds. She was just concerned about an app she needed to acces her bank, but looking at it I found itâs just Java, so installed default JRE on Debian, and that still works for her.
I have other succes-stories too, but also failures. Some refuse to even consider Linux. No problem for me.
2 Likes
I used Gentoo in the past (so, Iâm not scared of the CLI). No more, I donât like the build times, nor do I like the endless messing with configuration files. I want something simple these days. Linux Mint provides that.
I know quite well how to handle myself on the CLI. For myself itâs not a problem⊠however, for the newcomer it might very well be.
2 Likes
An idea for ITSFOSS to consider:
Take a look at this map:
This shows volunteers who happily offer technical help to unskilled Linux users (not just about Ubuntu). (This is for hungarians only)
Whoever gets stuck, may look at this map, and find someone who is near enough to contact personally. During the years I was found 3 times by this map
Would it be possible to create a similar thing internetionally and worldwide?
6 Likes
There are many Windows users that started off using CLI with DOS and still prefer it with Windows. Powershell wouldnât exist if some Windows users did not prefer CLI. Just because your preference is GUI and you find CLI scary does not mean others (regardless of operating system) do. It excludes potential Linux users when only GUI options are emphasized. Linux should have something for every type of user. I really appreciate the LFS motto, your Linux, your way. Iâm not saying we shouldnât have good GUI and TUI program choices on Linux. I do think we also need good CLI alternatives as well and we shouldnât be afraid to let potential users know about them.
2 Likes
What a great idea, its the first time I have seen this site and map. Although google maps offer google business where I can be found its just down to computer repairs not for linux as thats not a catalogue option.
Who would host, who would update, to add or remove.
Would you limit it to experts with qualifications to suit or just any with knowledge âŠ
Many questions but like the principal.
One linux flavour offered something similar by location not on a map if you signed up, could have been debian which I found and signed up for many years ago but never had a request or a link.
1 Like
Digital Freedom Foundation has a map like that for events. Those could give potential Linux users a starting point of groups to contact in their area if they have questions. Also, the Beyond 40 project is trying to reinvigorate local users groups. They donât have a map yet, but they have people in various areas that can be contacted with regards to Free Software: https://beyond40.codeberg.page/ It could be useful to collaborate with these types of projects if you wanted to put something together.
2 Likes