Advice for OS needed

Andy2 · January 4, 2021, 3:40pm

The Snap sandbox heavily relies on the AppArmor Linux Security Module from the upstream Linux kernel. Because only one “major” Linux Security Module (LSM) can be active at the same time - the Snap sandbox is much less secure when another major LSM is enabled. As a result, on distributions such as Fedora which enable SELinux by default, the Snap sandbox is heavily degraded.
I defer to experts on this but still believe I called it out as a backdoor correctly. There is much expert opinion out there to read.
SECURITY RISK. . . - it certainly is

EDIT:- Phew, You are still safe AFAIK with Trisquel - I just ran…
HP-G60-Notebook-PC:~$ snap list
The program ‘snap’ is currently not installed. You can install it by typing:
sudo apt install snapd
So do not panic all Trisquel users our devs are on top of the situation even in v8 - thanks guys .

Rosika · January 4, 2021, 4:09pm

@Andy2 and @Akito:

Hi and thanks so much to both of you for giving me your view on the matter of snaps.
Thanks also for the links which I´ll look up as well.

Very interesting insights.

I have to admit I haven´t put much thought into the matter of snaps.
But looking up the package list of LXLE (hot candidate) on DistroWatch.com: LXLE
it seems this distro takes care of the snap mechanism per default as well:

• snapd 2.40+18.04

I know that the degree of sandboxing done by snaps is much debated but regardless of that there´s one particular programme which gives me quite a lot of headaches: chromium-browser.

As I´m still using Lubuntu 18.04.5 at the moment I have the DEB-installed version if chromium running within the firejail sandbox which I like a lot.

With ubuntu or any derivative which I may install in April there´s no chromuim DEB-package available any longer, just as snap.
And firejail cannot handle snaps or rather: apps running as snaps.

That is very unfortunate, even to such a degree that I likely will be forced to refrain from using chromium.

Many greetings.
Rosika

Andy2 · January 4, 2021, 4:30pm

So busy so this is quick from the hip and may be of no use to you but…
My FOSS custom ROM on my Pixel phone is very secure grapheneOS as recommended by Edward Snowden. This uses a variant of chromium called Vanadium.

Rosika · January 4, 2021, 4:49pm

@Andy2:

Hi Andy,

Thanks for taking the time to respond once more.
It´s really appreciated.

Never heard of Vanadium before. I´ll do bit of research then.
Thanks also for your link.

I wish you every success for your Trisquel update.

Stay safe and many greetings.
Rosika

easyt50 · January 5, 2021, 2:43am

@Rosika, looks like you done a lot of homework, but yet maybe making it a bit more complicate in the process. From web site backdown.org
“As far as we’re concerned, we like using distros that come out of the box with most of the basic applications you’ll find on modern systems. Lubuntu, Linux Lite, and Ubuntu MATE are some pretty good examples.”
I believe I saw where you said you are using Lubuntu, so you are already using one of the top 10 lightweight Distro out there (backdown.org, itsfoss.com, techrader.com) . But you are doing a lot of looking around, so you must not be happy with Lubuntu for some reason.

Rosika · January 5, 2021, 1:04pm

@easyt50:

Hi Howard,

thanks for your post.

Right, I´m using Lubuntu 18.04.5 LTS at the moment and am completely satisfied with it.

But it´ll reach EOL next April; so I´ll have to do a fresh/clean install.
I´d very much like to stick to Lubuntu but as they switched to LXQt (which I don´t like at all) it seems I´ll have to abandon Lubuntu.

As already pointed out LXLE (https://lxle.net/ ) seems to come closest to LXDE-Lubuntu as I´m using it right now:

LXLE is based on Lubuntu which is an Ubuntu OS using the LXDE desktop environment. It is designed to be a drop-in and go OS, primarily for aging computers.

Thanks for your links.
I´ll look into them.
backdown.org however isn´t working. Sorry.

Many greetings.
Rosika

Andy2 · January 5, 2021, 5:11pm

Hi @Rosika and @easyt50 think it is a typo so try…

Beware of false claims here - will give you just one guess as to what they have never even heard of … … begins with T … .
See you on the far side - Best Wishes All

easyt50 · January 5, 2021, 8:52pm

Hi @Andy2, Thanks for the correcting my finger check.
Just b/c they did not mention your love (‘T’ word) does not make them a bad site.
Did you find T at the other two site? Do not know a lot about Blackdown, but I do respect Itsfoss and Techrader sites.
You keep telling us about the ‘T’ distro every day and several times a day sometimes.
Just wondering, Are you the new poster child for the Trisquel distro?

All in fun … Best Regards.

Andy2 · January 5, 2021, 9:15pm

Perhaps it does; as it also an admission that they have never heard of FsF Gnu Project, LibrePlanet, Richard Stallman or indeed the history of Linux itself gnuLinux is used by millions. Richard Stallman is known to use Trisquel on a ThinkPad. They do say ignorance is bliss they purport to have knowledge about Linux - LOL . Priceless…

… priceless - me - moi…?
Guess Richard Stallman has that roll in life…?

easyt50 · January 6, 2021, 12:35am

Boy @Rosika, after all this checking / talking about your future install, you will have to post back (when (if) you decide) what distro you went with and how it turned out.

More info to consider (muddy the water a bit more) … I found this;
" LXDE is the default desktop environment of Knoppix, LXLE Linux, Artix and Peppermint Linux"

***** and this *****

How to Install the Lightweight LXDE Desktop on Ubuntu

And since Lubuntu is a close cousin, maybe this would work on it too.
Take care.

Rosika · January 7, 2021, 1:39pm

Hi to all once again and thanks so much for your input

@Andy2:

Thanks for correcting the typo. I can reach said website now.

@easyt50:

Thanks, Howard, for the link. I cartainly can make good use of it.

That I will certainly do.
Yet it may take a while as I still have time until April.
On the other hand I could certainly perform my fresh install a bit earlier…

In the meantime I was able to get hold of LXLE 18.04.3 and I put it on my ventoy stick. I tried the live session which went well and my first impressions are pretty good. As already said - it might very well fit the bill.

I´d like to pick up my question I posted (#118) here, if you don´t mind.
I was considering the scenario of installing ubuntu and then installing the LXDE desktop afterwards.

The discussion then drifted towards the topic of snaps (which is fine BTW; thanks for all the info )
and I´ll probably go for LXLE instead.

Just for the sake of learning something new: Could such an ubuntu with LXDE and the heavyweight programmes replaced be considered a light distro?

Thanks for your opinions ain advance.

Many greetings.
Rosika

Pranav · January 12, 2021, 6:04am

Use Linuxmint XFCE edition, or Manjaro XFCE edition (rolling release - Manjaro alone), or install Ubuntu then the LXDE desktop environment.
(These are the lightweight distros which I’d recommend).

I gave you my suggestions eventhough I can’t explain. Sorry)

Rosika · January 12, 2021, 3:13pm

Hello @Pranav:

Thank you for your suggestions .

Well, that´s an option I haven´t considered yet in all seriousness although @clatterfordslim is using it as well). @callpaul.eu and @kc1di also suggested it.

I looked up Linux Mint 20.1 “Ulyssa” Xfce released! – The Linux Mint Blog (“Linux Mint 20.1 “Ulyssa” Xfce released!”) which doesn´t sound bad at all.

I would consider that option but as already said in post #9

I am a bit afraid of that situation with Mint as I couldn´t resolve it at the time.

Thanks a lot anyway for your suggestions.
Many greetings.
Rosika

P.S.:
I just found out that the so-called “Rückfallmodus” would be “recovery mode” in English.
Perhaps this is a cinnamon-phenomenon only and shouldn´t occur when using xfce

Pranav · January 12, 2021, 3:30pm

Is that a must to select the latest version? I’d say it’s not. Try Linux mint 19.3 Tricia based on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS, which has support till 2023. The latest versions may have errors. Try both the latest and older one, and select any one to be your main OS.

Please note that there’s difference between running an OS in real hardware and virtual hardware.

Many thanks,
Pranav.

Rosika · January 12, 2021, 4:38pm

Hi again,

you´re certainly correct in assuming it doesn´t have to be the latest version. Thanks for pointing that out.

I see. So the so-called “Rückfallmodus” I encountered may have to do something with the fact I was running Mint (cinnamon) in a VM.
That makes sense as I tend to allocate pretty minimal virtual hardware (specs) to my VM.

Many greetings.
Rosika

Andy2 · January 12, 2021, 9:33pm

Hey @easyt50 Old Timer - guess I now know why you did not want to conduct any test on your Mint OS let alone compare it to any version of Trisquel. (Post #76)
So I guess that I need to do it for you - couldn’t be arsed to do a full install so used live LinuxFormat DVD with seriously minimal Mint 19.3 Cinnamon - not even a photo editor!
So could not fire up GIMP for a fair test - Heck, we are all friends here - so I will let Mint off here… So here goes…

Mint-19-Terminal-02

Oh Dear - even standing still with no apps running 529MiB RAM - 40% more than Trisquel
Lets move on to the main test…

…WOW - OMG - Dude look at those CPU cores running at 62% just watching the same video in the same tab page as before - that’s 220% more than Trisquel…
Let us take a look at the RAM at 1.4GiB that is 27% more than Trisquel…
Pretty conclusive test showing Mint (and ubuntu) in the slow lane as Trisquel comes past in the fast lane. Streets ahead
Trust that you all think test was fair enough…?

Akito · January 12, 2021, 11:57pm

We starting to talk percentages? Okay, let’s start talking about that.

For easier calculations, I will treat the 529MB as 0.5GB and my RAM as 48GB, even though it is technically more, if I would be precise, so the result will be in your favour:

0.5GB of 48GB is 1.04% of my total RAM.

Now, this might be an usual amount of RAM – sure. Let’s be more beginner-friendly then.

I could only find a single statistic about the average RAM of computers around the world. It’s showing the average RAM a computer of a Steam user has.

30.38% have 8GB RAM in their computer.
41.81% have 16GB RAM in their computer.

(As of October 2020)

Most people have 16GB RAM.

Still, let’s be nice and do the calculations in your favour!
We pick the second most widely spread RAM amount!

So, let’s start calculations again…

0.5GB of 8GB is 6.25% of the (almost) average computer’s RAM.

You said

That’s not enough! Let’s bump it up in your favour and let’s say that it uses 50% more than Trisquel! Let’s be nice and do you this favour.

0.25GB of 8GB is 3.13% of the (almost) average computer’s RAM.

Second most widely spread RAM amount

OS	Total RAM	Usage
Trisquel	8GB	3.13%
Mint	8GB	6.25%

Most widely spread RAM amount

OS	Total RAM	Usage
Trisquel	16GB	1.56%
Mint	16GB	3.13%

RAM amount of almost all the people I know personally

OS	Total RAM	Usage
Trisquel	32GB	0.78%
Mint	32GB	1.56%

My RAM amount

OS	Total RAM	Usage
Trisquel	48GB	0.52%
Mint	48GB	1.04%

I don’t know how that look to you, but to me it seems like the average user wouldn’t give a single piece of flying pig shit, if their computer uses 3.13% of their RAM or 6.25% RAM, especially when this average user probably has unnecessary bloat on their computer, so the reduction in RAM you get from Trisquel is already by far outweighed by all the RAM increase that happens through bloating up your computer due to lack of technical knowledge and lack of knowledge regarding the usage of a computer.

If the user is counting peas, then this might be perhaps true. But if those “bloated” distributions help you be more productive and do your work quicker and more efficiently than the ultra-slimmed down Trisquel, than Mint and Ubuntu are actually FASTER! If I can’t do shit with a slimmed down skeleton distribution, then I am losing more time than I gain through the little increase in system performance.

Still, you got me. I did not test foreign distributions since several years, because I grew tired of it a very long time ago. However, all this Trisquel propaganda is so astoundingly one-sided and narrow-minded, that I actually consider trying this one out just to gather every single detail this distribution is not able to handle, while Ubuntu and friends do. I am inclined to gather all these itsy bitsy details, put them in a list and then compare those feature lists with the more popular distributions.
Then I wonder who will win the game after all, when Trisquel will be the slowest in productivity and human interaction performances…

Andy2 · January 13, 2021, 3:49pm

Well Akito - have you blown another fuse and blurted out yet more flaky information - most won’t give a piece of flying pig’s about your unresearched textural drivel - remember…

What a load of unadulterated crap that turned out to be as ALL can see I totally ignored your silly uninformed advice (#7) and went straight ahead and did just that and more too…!

Where did this ultra slimmed down Trisquel crap come from - Trisquel describe their OS as being aimed at the home and small business user and being a middleweight distro. Their only reference (documentation) to games is chess SFAIK i.e. games requiring some intelligence like chess, mah-jongg and sudoku rather than hitting the kill em all button - Duh; my brain hurts… It must have been STEAM cleaned or was it that Trump disinfectant…? Is it Pop OS that is cool for games…? I would not profess to know.

Hey Akito - get real - wake up… We are all living in a global www environment - much as I wish I was back in Corsica dodging pig shit - have you seen the balls on them? I compete with the rest of the world in conceptual and practical designs as a one man show. This is why I only fly business class to China, wherever, and clients ask how much do you want to… I care not that Trisquel may be Spanish or wherever or the nationality of Richard Stallman who uses Trisquel on a Think-Pad.

Hope you are into irony… Mr Trisquel Richard Stallman and gnulinux - are you using it… the kernel that is? Guess he knows more about it than most folks…?

Please - your having a laugh - init - bring it on please supply some evidence before banging on again.

ps It was my intention to provoke someone from the legions of ubuntu-mint users into responding with screen-shot evidence to illustrate their point of view. How telling that none have done so thus far.

Akito · January 13, 2021, 4:39pm

I am not sure what you mean, but I assume you accuse me of lying. For clarification:
I have a computer.
AND
I have a laptop.

The laptop is just as weak as I have said. There was no lie.

I can take a picture of my laptop, if anyone wishes so. I have a beautiful KDE desktop running on my old 4GB RAM ThinkPad.

I don’t care, what a company claims about who their product is good for.

GNU and Linux are 2 initially separate products. They just happen to go well together.

Thanks for the motivation. I will do that at some point.

It’s actually not telling, at all. You are pointing out a single attribute about a very complex piece of software (an operating system) and highlight that attribute as if there were no other pros and cons to consider.

Example:
I could go on an on of how reliable Apple products were 10 years ago and tell a whole book about it. Yet, the book would be almost worthless, if I wouldn’t mention that Apple is screwing over the customers over years and years.

That example is similar to your propaganda. (Clarification: Propaganda is not about lying, it’s about showing a fact only from a single extremely narrow-minded perspective, to manipulate the audience.)
You are ONLY talking about performance. Why not talk about looks, usability, UX, etc., too?

Andy2 · January 13, 2021, 5:24pm

Hey @Akito this is quite simple - you said “keep only 1 program at a time running; keep only a single YouTube tab open; etc."
This is simply to be kind - bad misleading incorrect advice.
My screen-shots of doing exactly this were taken with disproving your silly assertions in mind and fact. It is now clear to all that I can watch videos whilst having many open browser tabs with other apps ready to go WITHOUT ANY PROBLEM WHATSOEVER on a 13 year old laptop. In fact do whatever I like - fast and snappy too!
I have not edited the photos or manipulated any apps and truly believe my performance tests are both truthful and valid. I am quite willing to accept proof to the contrary - which is what I am trying to tease out of others for fun and correctness.
I have covered ease of use and looks elsewhere by showing just how easy Trisquel is to use and love the uncluttered look - I used to have loads of icons on my Vista start screen - Yuk. Mina and others go for colours like the red light area of Amsterdam whilst I like the cool calm of the Melk-Weg - this is great to have diversity rather than the duopoly here on it’sFOSS.

ps My observations are backed up by the author testing Trisquel over at DistroWatch - perhaps you have issues with his propaganda too…?