Can't save documents to my external drives after upgrade from Mint 19.3 to Mint 20.2

Hi Community,

thanks to all who were interested and responded to help out.

Still I don’t realy get two things:

  1. If its a matter of ‘rights’ and the SUDO command solution, as explained to Paul, did get the permission to access the drives. Then why does it work only off and on?

  2. If it’s a matter of NTFS formated drives and links of the Linux system, as mentioned with Neville, then why ist it, that there are no problems at all to save a document to ‘my documents’ on the system drive, which is ALSO formated with NTFS?
    And why is it possible to copy and pace to any file from ‘my documents’ or ‘videos’ or ‘desktop’ to all the other NTFS external drives?

Anyone care to comment? It would be highly appreciated!

regards
Klaus

They are good questions.
The only possibility that fits the facts is that LibreOffice may have trouble writing directly to a flash drive, especially if the filesystem is NTFS.
That sounds rather farfetched, but stranger things have happened.
Flash drives have to be mounted. I do know that a mount done by accessing the drive with the File Manager ( eg Thunar) is different from a mount done by superuser at the command line with the mount statement. LibreOffice can access a flash drive, so LibreOffice is able to do a mount, but it will be a user mount like the File Manager does, not a superuser mount.
How that is relevant I dont know, but normal filesystems on your HD are superuser mounts. A superuser mount point has permissions drwxr-xr-x, a user mount point has permissions 'drwxr-x—+` so they are different. Only owner and group can access a user mount point.
So maybe LibreOffice has a groups issue? Would it be possible that LibreOffice operates as some special user who belongs to some special group that normal users do not belong to? That sort of thing happens with CUPS - users of printers need to belong to the lpadmin group to be able to use printer commands. It seems unlikely LibreOffice would do that .
So we are left with… mounts made by LibreOffice are user mounts. They should work for the same user and for anyone in the users group.
I dont suppose you are moving these flash drives around between computers, where the UID number may differ even when the login name is the same? That might lead to file access problems, and it would have nothing to do with NTFS. You might check on that?

Regards
Neville

Thanks Neville!

I just mounted the drives as / but it didn’t work out saving was still only off&on possible. However I found out that apparently files, when I don’t give them names (untitled.odt), with them same content, are saveable anywhere, whereas if I put a title in I get the ‘No user rights’ prompt.

I did get these results with the file standard manager. Since I’m not at all familar with the terminal use and eg. cammands like your drwxr-xr-x.

I always tried to circle around that, unless I really had to, but I guess there is no avoiding to kneel into the pain right now anymore.

Talking about user friendly… (and I’ve got at least 25 years under my belt and a one year training as a webmaster) I wonder what o’l granny next door would do, or even the regular user guy at the office…

Mysterious, or plain stupidity on my side, I wonder…

Regards
Klaus

PS: I don’t move my drives around.

That has to be a clue
I dont suppose you are choosing names with strange characters that ntfs does not like?
or
what is your character set or keyboard? I would expect LibreOffice to work with UTF-8 . Not sure about ntfs?
or
are the names very long? ntfs might have a length limit
or
does it want you to type the .odt extension, or is it adding it and getting two?

Just guesses, I dont know the answer

That has to be a clue
Could be
I dont suppose you are choosing names with strange characters that ntfs does not like?
No, just regular titles of articles as ‘printed’ on the internet
or
what is your character set or keyboard? I would expect LibreOffice to work with UTF-8 . Not sure about ntfs?
Keyboard setting is regular ‘german’ as offered during installation
or
are the names very long? ntfs might have a length limit
No, whether longer or shorter titles it’s just the same. (On/Off situation)
Linux in general accepted way longer names then windows even under ntfs
or
does it want you to type the .odt extension, or is it adding it and getting two?
Actually it leaves this open, when nothing different is choosen, the files will be .odt

I’m thinking about to do a complete new installation, since I switched LibreOffice to OpenOffice and back (console).

thanks & regards
klaus

I wonder do you have to set a language inside LibreOffice, or does it take the system setting
German KB is not all that different to English

Forget tbe keyboard. There seem to be issues with locale settings.

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=197928
Check with
echo $TMP

Many thanks!!

But I have to get back to you later.

Little, problem with the washingmachine and plenty of water…

regards
klaus

1 Like

Did we look at if the external drives are powering down in a wait state …

Special characters are a pain quite offer have issues with french and German has many more different ones.

1 Like

I did a short trial. In MX, not Mint.
Made an ntfs partition on a flash drive
Opened LibreOffice, tried a Save As to the ntfs partition using the following file names

-rwxrwxrwx  1 nevj nevj   71 May 25 17:36 '.~lock.'\''test_singlequote'\''.odt#'
-rwxrwxrwx  1 nevj nevj 8339 May 25 17:30  test.odt
-rwxrwxrwx  1 nevj nevj 8691 May 25 17:36 "'test_singlequote'.odt"
-rwxrwxrwx  1 nevj nevj 8689 May 25 17:33  test_special.odt
-rwxrwxrwx  1 nevj nevj 8340 May 25 17:32  test_x.odt

That ,~lock… file is the lock on the file LibreOffice is currently using.
Those names all work
but
when I try
"test_doublequote"
it fails with the message
Screenshot_2023-05-25_17-47-30

So I dont know whether LibreOffice does not like doublequotes, or NTFS does not like doublequotes

So I tried to save “test_doublequote” on my HD ( ext4)
I got

-rw-r--r--  1 nevj nevj   71 May 25 18:01  .~lock.test_x.odt#
-rw-r--r--  1 nevj nevj 8348 May 25 18:02 '"test_doublequote".odt'
-rw-r--r--  1 nevj nevj 8280 May 24 17:42  test.odt

So doublequotes work on ext4, but look what it is doing… it makes the filename
'"test_doublequote".odt'
Now I think that may confuse NTFS.

So the big question fir @Klaus_Baumann
Are you using doublequotes?

Regards
Neville

That’s just your shell escaping them automatically… See it all the time… It’s a tad annoying - I kinda wish they’d just backslash escape the double quotes or illegal shell characters like :
\"test_doublequote\".odt
e.g. in ZSH when I let it complete a filename - it escapes dodgy chars with backslashes…

I am in LibreOffice when I type “testdoublequote”. So the shell you refer to is

  • the shell libreoffice is running in ?
  • the shell ls is running in?

I am really confused
If I typed “testdoublequote.odt”
what would I get?

It looks like LO is treating " as a character, and adding the .odt after the trailing "
Then ls thinks there are special characters and adds the outer single quotes?
I am even more confused.

1 Like

Great test thanks for that info.
Our special character set include
Ęëēėèéê
Čćç
Òôóöōœõ
Āãåªæâàáä
Ũùūûúü

And we are not into half of them…
The French government tried to introduce the idea of dropping them from the language but there was such an outcry
My wife who is french always corrects my writing no matter how hard I try I cannot remember which one to use, and that is just in normal letters, imagine with file names.

2 Likes

Thank you everybody!

I really appreciate all the effort, however I’m having trouble to follow your thoughts since I’m not all that familiar with all the terms, codes etc.

It seems though as if you guys are having fun and that’s great!

I did get a new installation of LM 20.2. This time I did let the installation process chose the proper
language pack automatically.

Then I checked the files that I couldn’t save before and all of them did have this character : (colon)

I tried to save new files from outside and with this : they weren’t able to be saved.

After deleting this character : from the title there were no problems saving the file. (pdf as well)

So I checked all those special characters on my keyboard to be saved…

These were the villains that didn’t work. : ? / * ~ . < > |

Maybe there is a way to do something about it? If not I will just leave them out of the titles. I could live with that… There were problems with these sort of things in windows as well. So what the heck?

I wish I could follow all your ideas properly and have all the codes ready at hand, to have some fun, too.

It seems like Linux is really a great tool to express oneself freely in cyberspace, or virtuously corresponding with the machine.

I wish you all only the best and thanks again, you treated me respectfully and I appreciate that.

You are a great community!

N.W.F :wink:

Regards
Klaus

Hi Klaus,

So our conclusion is… it is a special characters in the filename issue. Good on you for following it up so thoroughly. I assume it is only a problem with an NTFS filesystem.

If I were in your shoes, I would also avoid blanks in filenames. Use underscore instead. Linux handles blanks if the filename is quoted, but that is a nuisance typing quotes every time you reference the file.

Regards
Neville

1 Like

Hey Neville,

yes, I think so too. First and foremost the NTFS filesystem, since the 1 TB drive ist formated ext4 during installation and there is no issue, except these two characters / .

Once I’v changed the format of all my drives to ext4 it will be all so tolerable.

Thanks for the reminder, however I’m writing on a chronology of the decline of civilization since more than 20 years and I’m doing a lot of research. I collected literally hundreds of thousands of files, easily dozens per day, so once I decided it is unbearable to correct titles all the time.

I couldn’t really grasp the second part of your hint, ‘file name is quoted’ and ‘you reference the file’,
guess my semantics in English and computing background is just not good enough for straight talk in technical terms.

Quoted where? When do I reference the file?

Regards
Klaus

Hi Klaus,
There was an old post discussing this … ie bulk renaming of files
It is called “Best One-Liner”… find it with the search button
At the end of the post , there is a discussion between @daniel.m.tripp and myself about a command called rename and about a C program I wrote to remove special characters from filenames. You need a bit of Linux knowledge to follow it
Also the post “Problems with bulk renaming command”

With the amount of files you have I think I would just leave the names alone. Linux will enclose them in single quotes if they have strange characters.

 I’m writing on a chronology of the decline of civilization since more than 20 years and I’m doing a lot of research. 

Do you know the book
“Dirt: The erosion of Civilizations” David R Montgomery, Univ of California Press, Berkeley, California, 2007 ISBN 13:978-0-520-25806-8
It is about the role of soil degradation in the decline of civilizations.
I like your topic.

Sorry, I need to remember English is your second language.
‘file name is quoted’ I just meant a file name enclosed in quotes eg ‘my file’
‘you reference the file’ Every time you use a file name at the command line, you have to type it like ‘my file’ if it contains blanks or special characters.

If you are writing a research document, particularly if it is a thesis, it may be worth learning to use Latex. Most scientific papers, particularly mathematical ones, are prepared with Latex. Latex deals with references in semi-automatic way.
Office is more suited to something like a book.
There are no rules, you can use anything you are comfortable with.

I hope I have not added to the confusion.
Regards
Neville

PS.
itsFOSS forum is attempting to deal with language issues.
See the current post

Hello Neville,

sorry for being late, I do have so many things to do and the pile is not really getting smaller, at least not significantly. However I am never bored, there is always something to do, and that’s a good thing.

Thank you so much for all your suggestions and probable solutions.

I wouldn’t try to have all the titles renamed, before I have ALL saved on a new ext4 drive. Therefore I will get into the ‘bulk renaming’ later. And then I will start with parts of it. Thank you for that link!

Do you know the book
“Dirt: The erosion of Civilizations” David R Montgomery, Univ of California Press, Berkeley, California, 2007 ISBN 13:978-0-520-25806-8

Thank you for this book. I think didn’t know David R. Montgomery. I did read a little bit about it, mainly reviews. It does look very interesting and he has also some interesting other books on archive.org.

The agriculture, the soil, the dirt is one of the main topics and one of the most important ones, because we have to care for our home, aka the earth, which has been bleed dry for at least 120 years by greedy individuals in the shadows, eagerly posing as philanthropists.

For example Rudolf Steiner wrote about it a hundred years ago, offered solutions, technique and all, but has been ignored ever since…

I follow these subjects closely and there have been a good number of authors over the years but nothing changes for the better. There is good effort from so many nature loving people, but to no prevail.

For instance one of the best plants for agriculture is hemp, it helps the soil to recuperate in a very natural way. It renews the soil, it keeps the bugs out. It reduces the need for fertilizers. It gives you 5 times as much paper product and these papers last also 5 times longer. That was the way things have been done 120 years ago and for ages before that. 80% of all medicine have been made with hemp. Oil-extract from cannabis flowers are until today one of the most powerfull medicines against cancer and many other diseases. There were over 50.000 different very helpfull and lasting products made from hemp.

What have ‘they’ done? They made it illegal, only to help Hearst sell papers made from his newly acquired wood farms in the brazilian jungle and to help DuPont sell his newly invented plastic fibre, supported by the media trumpets, and the sheeple followed suit into the abyss. (…)

In the 1930’s Tesla & Ford did build a luxury car made entirely from hemp, up to the varnish. Of course the almost 1700 kg weighing car was run without gas by a tesla machine up to 80 mph. They tested the varnish with a sledge hammer - not even a scratch or a dent… Motor oil made from hemp is the best there is. Even synthetic motor oil can’t compare. And it’s all natural and can decompose.

Another example is ‘Effective Micro-Organisms’ (EM) it rejuvenates the soils. It keeps the soil strong and healthy. After Fukoshima only agriculture product made with EM lasted and was the only product still potable. (I know it sounds strange)

They yield is about 30% higher and the plants are healthy, biggers & stronger.
Why isn’t it promoted widely? It is even drinkable and very healthy for the gut. (Micro biome)

Montgomery gives also many examples about what to do. We have all the knowledge for betterment. There was an Austrian scientist who figured out that, if seeds or eggs are irradiated with a certain frequency the outcome was old ancient varieties of trouts and crops. Bigger and stronger, higher yields and even better protected against modern maladies. There was once a documentary about it running on a german TV show. Only once! But one can still find it at the internet.

You see, what I’m trying to say is, as long as we don’t really wake up and become real adults, with true sovereignty and the power to follow our own ideas or true scientific research, and as long as we bow to the imaginary ‘masters’, there will be no real change and the suffering will go on and on and on…

But aren’t we supposed to suffer? Didn’t our souls come here to incorporate to suffer in the duality and to anneal our soul and to obey the cruel master, the wicked circumstances and still keep our cool, our capacity to finally become Buddha? (Christ)

I don’t like to see old women/men left alone, forced to dire straits and desperation.
I don’t like to see children being sexually molested and horribly killed.
I don’t like to see our living nature being treated like a garbage dump.
I don’t like being treated as a Slave who has no say.

I want my full sovereignty, now! F r e e d o m !!

Does this mean I can’t become Buddha? Does this mean I can’t become Christ?
When I’m fed up with it and want to do something for the better?
Do I really have to suffer when I’m here on this planet?

“Yeah, Yeah… many, many people are doing something, think global, act local, march together but fall alone etc. etc. pp.”

But the BIG picture never changes as long as WE don’t change to become a real sovereign!

This may sound a little desperate, but it’s not. It’s just facts as I see them and I could go on with many more points to be made. But what’s the point? Many people know this, this is nothing new.

So, we will get born into slavery, we will grow older, we will see the carrot tangeling in front of our eyes, we will persue it, we will pay taxes, we will produce new slaves, we will get old, we will get sick, we will suffer even more, finally we will die…And the wheel will keep on turning…

…blessed are the poor in spirit…

Is this really a slavery planet for our souls to suffer and grow? I mean Yin & Yang. The good & the bad.
Was this originally written in the distribution, to keep us suffering?

If so, then what’s the point of reading books, writing books, become educated, become a scientist who also has to follow suit. To walk the line. Otherwise the ‘peers’ don’t like it and you’ll get expelled.

Best to stay docile, ignorant and without owning anything, but very, very happy - or else…

What happened to Nikola Tesla?
What happened to Wilhelm Reich?
What happened to Viktor Schauberger?
What happened to Burkhard Heim?
What is happening at CERN?

Oh well, maybe the cat isn’t even there, if we don’t look inside the box?

Well, we do have the pentecost holiday ‘Whitsunday’ this weekend.

I wish you the spirit of Christ this weekend, there down under, where one can get away from things.

Kind regards

Klaus

N.W.F.

1 Like

Hi Klaus,
Australia is not the backwater it used to be. The town Sydney where I grew up was surrounded by a coastal sandstone environment with a tremendous variety of unique native plants. It has all been eaten up by housing development, except in the water catchment and national park areas. Things that I saw as a child, now exist only in books.

I have read some of Rudolf Steiner , and Goethe, mainly because of my interest in organic gardening. We have a small farm, and we do try to allow some space for things to regenerate. We have succeeded in getting the Casuarina trees (she oaks) to spread. They are important because Casuarina trees have nitrogen fixing bacteria, like legumes. The grass is always greener under the Casuarina trees… not sure if it is the nitrogen or the frost protection.

If you look at Montgomery, you will find that exploiting the environment has been going on far longer than your 120 years. One of the important points he makes is that about a third of the CO2 emitted since the industrial revolution comes not from fossil fuels, but from soil degredation.

I have not grown hemp. We do not crop. There are medicinal hemp farms in Tasmania. As far as I know we dont grow it for fibre. It would be a much better fibre crop than cotton. Cotton has a huger water demand, and water is a scarce resource in Australia.

I agree with you there is a religious component in environmental thought. We can only do something by acting as individuals and fixing our own little area. Worry about my own faults, not someone else’s. Global problems are insoluble. The lessons from biology are that overpopulation will eventually lead to decline, but not before there is a lot of collateral damage. The message from religion is that everyone is important as an individual , and the whole of humanity is important because it is a sacred creation. All the creeds say that.

So yes, we are off to Mass today, to see what Pentecost has to say. Worship is part of the cycle of living.

N.W.F. ? Is that National Wildlife Federation?

Regards
Neville

Hi Neville,

I did take a break. A couple of days walkabout so to speak.

First let me tell you that I really enjoyed to read about your off topic response to me going off the terrain.

One of these pleasures of modern life, to easily connect to other brains at the other side of our world.

I still remember teletype in the 1980‘s…

Australia is not the backwater it used to be. The town Sydney where I grew up was surrounded by a coastal sandstone environment with a tremendous variety of unique native plants. It has all been eaten up by housing development, except in the water catchment and national park areas. Things that I saw as a child, now exist only in books.

I did spent about two month in Sydney, Kings Cross, Bondi and Manly.

Picturesque describtion of yours and I am sorry to hear that, but it‘s the same here, degeneration processes on many levels, and for that matter pretty much all around the world, one can see the same patterns.

Is it the human being, trying to get a better life, being drawn to the cities, where a livelihood seems to be reachable?

Is it the bad education in public schools, neglecting the importance of true environmental awarenes in children to become mindfull centered citizens, who know by their gut, that destroying the environment is equal to self sabotage, because we are all one, interconnected through a godly matrix?

Is it this lack of religious concience that lead people on to become greedy, abominational housing developers and corrupt politicians?

I have read some of Rudolf Steiner, and Goethe, mainly because of my interest in organic gardening. We have a small farm, and we do try to allow some space for things to regenerate. We have succeeded in getting the Casuarina trees (she oaks) to spread. They are important because Casuarina trees have nitrogen fixing bacteria, like legumes. The grass is always greener under the Casuarina trees… not sure if it is the nitrogen or the frost protection.

I congratulate you having your own farm and being able to work in gods garden.

Casuarina is apparently also a dominant character with chemical and healing properties about which I wasn‘t aware of. Thank you!

[It is discovered that Casuarina leaves and bark can be used for removing textile dyes. While the leaves are effective on methylene blue, reactive orange 16 Rhodamine B, methyl violet 2b, and malachite green, the Casuarina bark is only effective on methylene blue.] 28 Casuarina Tree Facts That Will Surprise You About The Plant | Kidadl

Methylene blue on the other hand has also some healing properties that are not commonly known, but well worth to look into. The Surprising Health Benefits of Methylene Blue

[It is said that Casuarinas eliminate competing plant species by using allelopathy, which is the act of releasing some chemicals that prevent the development and growth of competing plants.]

Now I really wonder, why the grass is allways greener under your Casuarinas?

If you look at Montgomery, you will find that exploiting the environment has been going on far longer than your 120 years. One of the important points he makes is that about a third of the CO2 emitted since the industrial revolution comes not from fossil fuels, but from soil degredation.

That‘s right the abuse of our environment is much older, because the lack of awareness that nature is our mother.

I belive focusing on CO2 is a distraction. No CO2 = No life!

It really is about control:

I have not grown hemp. We do not crop. There are medicinal hemp farms in Tasmania. As far as I know we dont grow it for fibre. It would be a much better fibre crop than cotton. Cotton has a huger water demand, and water is a scarce resource in Australia.

Hemp is a god send plant for us humans to benefit effectively.

Cotton is also a polluter since the crop must be constantely protected with pestizides etc.

I agree with you there is a religious component in environmental thought. We can only do something by acting as individuals and fixing our own little area. Worry about my own faults, not someone else’s.

If everybody would think that way, it would be a great start.

Global problems are insoluble.

Ok, it is a tremendous task and life is to short, but did somebody really, I mean really try? Shouldn‘t this be the first of all agenda of ALL the global agencies and NGO‘s? Not to increase restrictions, but to build bases of thoughts and education on which free men will do the right thing?

Well, there is this notion that it is gods will, to keep us in the sisyphus treadmill. To keep us abusing the planet, the civilisation, up until nuclear destruction and then start over again? In an endless devil’s circle. Dante‘s inferno? I find it hard to believe, because it doesn‘t fit the freewheeling abudance of nature and it‘s regenerative character in general.

The lessons from biology are that overpopulation will eventually lead to decline, but not before there is a lot of collateral damage.

You most certainly know that ALL of humanity would fit into the USA? As a natural organizer it‘s hard to immagine, that with the right information and the right tools there is the possibillity to bring humanity around.

I‘ve seen waterpumps with powerfull filters, that did deliver 40.000 litres of fresh water from any source per hour. Developed and marketed in Germany, in action in Africa, only to get suppressed and forbidden later on.

What about the huge water reservoirs in rocks under the libyan desert, Ghaddafi tried to green Africa and become independant. Look, what happened to him! To me it is a matter of ones own will and the powers that be, who don‘t want to lose their power of control.

The message from religion is that everyone is important as an individual, and the whole of humanity is important because it is a sacred creation. All the creeds say that.

Agreed! Plus we are electrical, spiritual beings occupying a human body like we use a car or plane, and without this limiting vehicle we can transcend into all dimensions. And know it all.

So yes, we are off to Mass today, to see what Pentecost has to say. Worship is part of the cycle of living.

Do you find it diffcult to devote yourself entirely to the creators will in all aspects of life? To me it is enticing, however difficult at times, when the ego wants to steer against the ‚flow‘.

N.W.F. ? Is that National Wildlife Federation?

Sorry, this is a term I picked up DownUnder. Which I thought is common knowledge in Austraila. It might be a sailors term, because sailing the coasts of Australia is often pretty rough.

Anyways, pretty good logical guessing on your part.

It simply means ‚No (w)ucken (f)orries‘…

Which is easier said then done.

While we grow older with open eyes, we become more aware of all the hoaxes surrounding us from the start. Many veils starting to be lifted.

Hoaxes that are pictured in many nice colours and narrated as the most beautifull life.

But it‘s a crooked deck of cards and most people, who understand it, play along. Therefore it is so hard to have real change. So, one lives in his bubble, by his own thoughts, not raising his head higher then absolutly required. Which is actually ok. Because in the end we have to take the last step alone in our mind as well. Maybe affraid of what‘s to come, but there is nothing to be affraid of. This is the step we take to free ourselfs from the delusions of the human existence.

Australia has been very good for me. In the woodlands between Byron Bay and Nimbin I got to dive deep into the natural life. Living on a Farm and milking cows in Nimbin and meeting up with Kangaroos and Leaches deep down in the forests and surrounding national parks.

Which looked like really old untouched jungle in a fairytale.

Here is a song that explains my ideas very well.

Oh My Love - Featuring Katyna Ranieri by Riz Ortolani

Thank you for your attention!

Regards
Klaus

They spread by suckering, as well as seed. Form dense clumps. Inside a dense clump the ground is covered with needles, and nothing grows. But alongside clumps the grass is greener for up to 20 m away from the trees. I dont know the reason, it is just an observation.

[quote="Klaus Baumann, post:31, topic:10564, username:Klaus_Baumann"]
Shouldn‘t this be the first of all agenda of ALL the global agencies
[/quote]

The world is a collection of nations. Between nations is anarchy. So called global bodies like the UN are toothless.
We have learnt how to organize one society. Noone has solved the problem of international relations. Companies that operate internationally are lawless. We cant even tax them, let alone influence what they do.

There has been progress. In the middle ages the whole setup was like international anarchy.
No wonder people retreated into monasteries. We have organised our way out of that within the boundaries of each country. But that is all. A new breakthrough is needed.

Cheers
Neville

1 Like