General question regarding support period of distros (Ubuntu and derivatives)

[Rosika (Rosika Schreck)]

Hi Neville,

thanks you so much for helping me again.

@nevj

No sorry I confused you again

No need to apologize at all, Neville. I´m sure it´s my fault. Though trying to be as attentive as I can, I may often miss some crucial parts. Sorry.

@nevj

os-prober […] all it does is list things on the screen. It does not setup grub, so it is quite safe to do that anytime

Now I understand, Thanks a lot.

@nevj

When grub calls os-prober, it is another matter. Then grub takes the output from os-prober and uses it to construct the grub configuration.

Right. I get it .

@nevj

Sorry for the longwinded explanation

No. no. Not longwinded at all. I like thorough explanations a lot.

@nevj

I think your choice of letting the new linux control grub is the right one

Perfect. Thanks.

I like your method with dual boot for 2 Lubuntus very much.

After a while - when I have set up Lubuntu 22.04 LTS to my satisfaction - I may delete the old Lubuntu system (20.04 LTS).

That´s really great as it gives me enough time to get settled in.

Yet I´m afraid there are still two questions left for me to ask. So Sorry, Neville .

• Lubuntu uses the calamares installer.
  To my recollection I need to select a device for the bootloader (when choosing the “something else” option). So the “device for bootloader installation” asks me where to put the bootloader.
  Say I want to use my external HDD (where old Lubuntu resides) and it´s /sdb .
  I already used /sdb back then for my first installation. I guess I´d use /sdb now once more.
  So does the new installtion for Lubuntu 22.04 overwrite the old config then
  Cos´ in the end I will uninstall old Lubuntu … and new Lubuntu will be left over.

• When the time comes to uninstall old Lubuntu (20.04) from the dual-boot setup …
  how do I go about uninstalling it?
  Should I use gparted from within new Lubuntu and delete it from there?
  I.e. delete root and home partition (from old Lubuntu)?
  The thing is:
  when doing my monthly clonezilla disk-backup I naturally don´t want to have any data from old Lubuntu to clutter my backup.
  A clonezilla disk backup should cover only root-, home- and third (data) partition then (MBR will be saved as well by default when doing a disk backup)

Sorry to trouble you again, dear Neville

Thanks so much for your help.

Many greetings from Rosika

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

@Rosika

Lubuntu uses the calamares installer.
To my recollection I need to select a device for the bootloader (when choosing the “something else” option). So the “device for bootloader installation” asks me where to put the bootloader.
Say I want to use my external HDD (where old Lubuntu resides) and it´s /sdb .
I already used /sdb back then for my first installation. I guess I´d use /sdb now once more.
So does the new installtion for Lubuntu 22.04 overwrite the old config then

When you tell it where to put the bootloader, it only overwrites the bootloader partition or mbr on the disk. It does not touch your old linux partitions.
If your computer is legacy boot and has an msdod partition table, , it will put grub in the mbr of the disk that you nominate. The mbr is a small area at the beginning of the disk that is hidden… ie it does not show as a prtition to gparted.
If your computer is uefi boot, and has a gpt partition table, it will put grub in a special partition called EFISystem partition. This is a normal partition , you can see it with gparted.
If your computer is legacy boot, and has a gpt partition table, it will put grub in a special partition called BIOS-grub partition. You can see this partition with gparted too.
I dont think the other combination, uefi boot with msdos partition table is possible… not sure.

How about you find out what combination you have by looking with gparted. Can you see either EFISystem or BIOS-grub partitions?

Bottom line is… you dont have to worry about the choice of where to put the bootloader leading to an overwrite of your old linux.

Cheers
Neville

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

@Rosika

When the time comes to uninstall old Lubuntu (20.04) from the dual-boot setup …
how do I go about uninstalling it?
Should I use gparted from within new Lubuntu and delete it from there?
I.e. delete root and home partition (from old Lubuntu)?
The thing is:
when doing my monthly clonezilla disk-backup I naturally don´t want to have any data from old Lubuntu to clutter my backup.
A clonezilla disk backup should cover only root-, home- and third (data) partition then (MBR will be saved as well by default when doing a disk backup)

I thought I would do this one separately.
I would just use gparted , and tell it to format the relevant partitions, ie just put a new ext4 filesystem on it.
You dont really need to remove the partition, but you can delete it if you wish
An empty partition will not clog up clonezilla… it is clever enough to recognize empty space and exclude it from the backup image.

And , I guess you should realize, you can access your data partition from both the new and old linux. You just mount it.
It is quite safe to write on the data partition with either linux. I do that sort of thing all the time.
You should not, however share home directories between 2 linuxes. They need to be separate. You can read them from either linux… just use mount.

Regards
Neville

[Rosika (Rosika Schreck)]

Hello again, Neville;

thank you a thousand times for taking the time to provide some wonderul answers once again.

@nevj

I thought I would do this one separately.

Yes, that´s perfactly alright .Thanks a lot.

@nevj

If your computer is legacy boot and has an msdod partition table, , it will put grub in the mbr of the disk that you nominate. The mbr is a small area at the beginning of the disk that is hidden… ie it does not show as a prtition to gparted.

Yes, I think that´s the case with me.
Did you mean “msdos” partition BTW ?

On my system:

[ -d /sys/firmware/efi ] ; and  echo UEFI ; or  echo BIOS
BIOS

… and then:

env LANG=en_GB:en sudo fdisk -l
Disk /dev/sdb: 931.49 GiB, 1000170586112 bytes, 1953458176 sectors
Disk model: Elements 25A2   
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disklabel type: dos
Disk identifier: 0x0b7926f1

Device     Boot     Start       End   Sectors   Size Id Type
/dev/sdb1            2048  48828415  48826368  23.3G 83 Linux
/dev/sdb2        48828416 123467775  74639360  35.6G 83 Linux
/dev/sdb3       123467776 533067775 409600000 195.3G 83 Linux
[...]

In actual fact I made a backup of the MBR at one time in the past.

sudo dd if=/dev/sdb of=mbr_backup bs=512 count=2048

For restoring (if need be) then:

dd if=mbr_backup of=/dev/sdb bs=512 count=2048 # sdb being my HDD

I discussed it once here: Clonezilla / Discussion / Clonezilla live: excluding a partition from disk-backup? .

@nevj

Can you see either EFISystem or BIOS-grub partitions?

No, in fact I don´t.

@nevj

Bottom line is… you dont have to worry about the choice of where to put the bootloader leading to an overwrite of your old linux.

O.K., that´s great. So I put /sdb again as device for bootloader (provided of course /sdb is my external HDD.

Thanks so much

@nevj

I would just use gparted , and tell it to format the relevant partitions

Great.
When formatted those partitions are “empty” then and not covered by clonezilla. Fine.

I only hope formatting won´t take an eternity. I once formatted a 32 GB USB stick with gparted and it took forever to finish.
Later on I found out gnome-disks was able to do the same task in a jiffy.
Wouldn´t I be able to do the fomatting from within gnome-disks as well

@nevj

And , I guess you should realize, you can access your data partition from both the new and old linux. You just mount it.

That´s another great part of your suggestion, Neville.

@nevj

You should not, however share home directories between 2 linuxes. They need to be separate.

O.K., that´s clear, I think.

I´m sure I will follow your suggestion regarding a tentative dual-boot setup. It surely has superb advantages.
Plus: that way I even wouldn´t have to wait until next April when Lubuntu 20.04 LTS reaches EOL.

Thank you so much, Neville.

Many greetings from Rosika

[4dandl4 (Daniel Phillips)]

@Rosika

If I run the command … does it take care of editing /etd/default/grub

No it does not, you will still have to edit /etc/default/grub.

[Rosika (Rosika Schreck)]

Hi Daniel,

@4dandl4

No it does not, you will still have to edit /etc/default/grub.

Right. @nevj in the meantime cleared up the misunderstanding (on my part).

But thanks to you as well, for letting me know.
I hope I get it now .

Many greetings
Rosika

[4dandl4 (Daniel Phillips)]

@Rosika
If you are installing the new Lubuntu on the same disk as the old Lubuntu, you are going to need another / ext4 partition for the new Lubuntu. The Calamares installer is going to ask for a / root partition for the install. You can use Gparted, and I think it is under the view tab, and see if your disk is either mbr or gpt.
It is more than likely a gpt, especially if you have more than 4 partitions, on the disk. The new Grub will overwrite the old Grub, but without a second / partition, the Calamares installer is going to overwrite your / partition you have.
A better scenario, and this is what I do, is move all my data to a usb stick or even to a data disk, and reformat the / partition for my other Linux.

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

@Rosika

Yes, I think that´s the case with me.
Did you mean “msdos” partition BTW ?

Yes msdos, that is a typo
Because your disk is msdos partitioned, it only allows 4 primary partitions. So when you come to add some more partitions you will need to use an extended partition ( ithink that is the right name, I cant remember). What is it? It just breaks one primary partition into a number of logical partitions, so you can have more than 4.
Gparted will look after it for you. You already have 3 partitions, so when you make the 4th partition tell gparted it is to be a logical partition, rather than a primary partition . If you make a 4th primary partition it will not make any more. Same for the 5th oartition, make it logical. You can have up tom128 logical partitions, but ony 4 primary partitions, and one of the 4 has to be used as the parent of the logical partitions.
Sorry thats complicated
Regards
Neville

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

@4dandl4

The Calamares installer is going to ask for a / root partition for the install. You can use Gparted, and I think it is under the view tab, and see if your disk is either mbr or gpt.

Hi Daniel,
We have worked out, @Rosika’s disk has msdos partition table (you callmit mbr).
I have never used calamares, but I would always recommend doing the partitioning with gparted first. especially in this case, because Rosika needs 2 extra partitions, / and /home, and she will,need to make logical partitions.
Two root partitions on the same disk is not a problem. It is a good idea to use partition labels… I use LinxRoot1, LinuxHome1, LinuxRoot 2
LinuxHome2,… etc
You just have to be be very careful when installing that you nominate the correct partitions for / and /home

Regards
Neville

[4dandl4 (Daniel Phillips)]

@nevj
If the disk is MBR(MSDOS), then it will only hold 4 primary partitions. One can use a extended partition and create Linux partitions on it. The extended partition will take the place of one of the primary partitions.
@Rosika has the room for the new Lubuntu, if the internal disk is used for the install. The Calamares installer is rather easy to use, and you can create the wanted partitions with Gparted, but the mount points, / /home /boot will have to be set with Calamares.

This will be similar to what @Rosika is in need of. This is a 1TB MBR disk with three primary partitions and one logical(extended partition) Gparted was used to create the partitions, except for /dev/sda1.
/dev/sda1 was the first partition create, with a install of WXP, /dev/sda2 and /dev/sda3 or data partitions
one is NTFS for Windows and one is ext4 for Linux.
/dev/sda is the logical or extended partition with swap (/dev/sda5) and / (/dev/sda6) for the install of Manjaro, I do not use a separate /home, I just see no need for it.
If I want to install with some other Linux, I just reformat the / partition and let Grub overwrite the MBR.

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

@4dandl4
I agree with all your points there
Neville

[Rosika (Rosika Schreck)]

Hi all once again,

thanks for providing your latest comments.

It´s been a while since I dealt with the topic of primary and logical partitions and I must admit I would´ve neglected to take this issue into account . .
So be thanked a lot for bringing it up.

I issued the command sudo parted -l to see what I´ve got already on my external disk:
Indeed, all 3 partitions are primary ones.
So with another 2 partitions I´ll need extended ones then.

BTW: this is what gparted says:

So up to now everything´s clear.

I think ubiquity calls it “logical” partition. No idea whether calamares would call it the same or “extended”… I guess I will see in time…

@4dandl4:

@4dandl4

The new Grub will overwrite the old Grub, but without a second / partition, the Calamares installer is going to overwrite your / partition you have.

That´s certainly a very important point. Thanks.
As calmares lists 2 root partition then … is there a way to mark the newly created one for installation
… and the newly created home partition as well…?

@4dandl4

The Calamares installer is rather easy to use, and you can create the wanted partitions with Gparted, but the mount points, / /home /boot will have to be set with Calamares.

Right.
Yet I don´t have /boot … as a separate partition.

@nevj:

@nevj

but I would always recommend doing the partitioning with gparted first. especially in this case, because Rosika needs 2 extra partitions, / and /home, and she will,need to make logical partitions.

Right, that´s how I´ll go about it.

@nevj

Two root partitions on the same disk is not a problem. It is a good idea to use partition labels… I use LinxRoot1, LinuxHome1, LinuxRoot 2

Good idea.
But how do I do it then?

In gparted I see via the right-click menu (clicking on my third partition) the entry “Label File System”. I guess this would be it.
It´s greyed out at the moment as the third partition is still mounted.

@nevj

You just have to be be very careful when installing that you nominate the correct partitions for / and /home

Yes, that´s just the point. I hope there´s a way of letting calamares know…

Thanks a lot to both of you.

Many greetings from Rosika

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

@Rosika

Yet I don´t have /boot … as a separate partition.

@nevj:

Hi Rosika,
/boot separate is optional. It is quite OK just a a subdirectory inside /

I notice you have ext2 filesystems. That is OK, but for the new linux I would use ext3. A journalled file system will have fewer problems.

[quote="nevj, post:49, topic:9347"]
Two root partitions on the same disk is not a problem. It is a good idea to use partition labels… I use LinxRoot1, LinuxHome1, LinuxRoot 2
[/quote]

Good idea.
But how do I do it then?

You do it in gparted. Under the partition button, there is an item called Label. It is a relatively safe thing to do in gparted. You can change the label of a filesystem at any time quite safely. Have a practice.

Regards
Neville

[Rosika (Rosika Schreck)]

Thanks Neville,

@nevj

/boot separate is optional.

Thanks for letting me know.

@nevj

Under the partition button, there is an item called Label

It´s “Label File System” with me, but I guess that´s what you´re referring to.

I´ll still have to find out how calamares knows which of the two root and home partitions to use for the new installation.
I´ll keep looking.

Thanks so much and many greetings
Rosika

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

@Rosika

I´ll still have to find out how calamares knows which of the two root and home partitions to use for the new installation.

You tell it. You nominate the device name for / and /home. It is important to do this bit right. If you mess it up, you write the new install on the wrong partitions
Dont panic, it is quite easy to do.

Regards
Neville

[Akito]

@nevj

I notice you have ext2 filesystems. That is OK, but for the new linux I would use ext3. A journalled file system will have fewer problems.

Why not ext4?
…
…

[Rosika (Rosika Schreck)]

@nevj

You tell it. You nominate the device name for / and /home.

I see. Thanks.

See, that´s what I cannot recollect any more. I thought there was some sort of checkbox…
Obviously not…

@nevj

Dont panic, it is quite easy to do.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Many greetings.
Rosika

[Rosika (Rosika Schreck)]

Hi @Akito,

Until now I´ve always used ext2.

Whether ext3 or ext4… I would have a mix of different filesystems for my 3 partitions in the end (when I finally get rid of old Lubuntu):

My data partition will still be ext2.

A very stupid question, I´m sure, but:

I hope this wouldn´t pose any problems

Many greetings
Rosika

[nevj (Neville Jackson)]

@Rosika

. I thought there was some sort of checkbox…

Yes, it will prompt you.
You can do a practice run if you need. Just dont do the install step,at the end , and nothing will go onto the disk.

[Rosika (Rosika Schreck)]

@nevj

Yes, it will prompt you.

Great; sounds good then.
Thanks a lot for the hint.

@nevj

Just dont do the install step,at the end , and nothing will go onto the disk.

I see. That´s fine then.

Thanks and many greetings from Rosika