Due to Nvidia graphics issues, I cannot upgrade to Ubuntu 24.04 and kernel 6, so I use Ubuntu
Pro and kernel 5, until the machine dies or I die.
3 Likes
Not one to poor cold water on a project and please do not take this in the wrong way but !
I question the idea of multi boot systems
If the desktops dont look and feel the same
Has access to the same data area for files
Understanding why and when to choose boot 1 over boot 2 or even 3
Having a mirror image on your own machine so you can guide at a distance how to do …
Your mum does not have 2 phone lines, routers and connections which are just as likely to go wrong
No disrespect but the older we all get the more confusing these things could be
I think its great you support her from a distance with technology !
1 Like
I did not mean for Sheila’s mother. Only while Sheila is doing the new install.
She should go back to one before handing it over to mother, yes.
2 Likes
+1 for the fresh install, whichever distro you choose.
@Sheila_Flanagan, did you manage to set up your self hosted own server for data storage?
You could set up your mom’s computer to synchronize such precious user data to it. So you’ll always have a backup, and when she gets to the other computer, it could synchronize again, so basically she would have access to her data at any computer. Yes, this is private cloud 
This also means more or less automatical back up of her data, as you do care for the data on you own server, you are going to minatin your backup there, which also would backup your mom’s data…
Probably I’d setup a VM, in which I’d create a model of the environment for your mom. Set up there everything, find the problems, solve them or ask for help to solve them (with a new distro there may be some), note the steps to do everything. When you arrive to her in the autumn, you’ll be kind of ready to do the real install.
Footnote: I was not sure I should write this, but I do it now, maybe it’s helpful, if not, just ignore…
I don’t inplace-upgrade my Debian, always do a fresh install.
I start with the pure Debian, install it. Then I collect the packages I need to install to the new version. I collect the names of packages I don’t want to be installed, and purge them. I add/edit some config files, configurations.
I add/edit some theming.
I do all this having my family in my mind too, so what they need, and so on.
Every step I make during the initial “customization” I write in a script.
So basically I can repeat my install and customization steps in an hour.
So after that feels OK for me, I wipe the partition of my new system, and reinstall the pure Debian. Then run my install script, which supposedly puts my fresh installed system right
In this step I notice what is still missing, so complete the thing.
After that the new Debian is ready to be deployed to the other computers in my ecosystem.
This takes time, but I like to fiddle with it. The benefit is, that I can repeat my whole installation/customization process in an hour, and that makes easy to replace a dying drive holding a system partition.
This is the way I do it.
Of course the approach is not tied to Debian, you could do it with any distro to your liking.
2 Likes
As a clean new install only takes around 2 hours start to finish including updates and install or uninstall software tools not sure its needed
Another option could be cloud storage of files then if system fails ship another machine to replace set up ready
Hi Paul,
I think we are at cross purposes.
I like to have the old version lying around, in case the new version is unstable or has driver problems. That is why I always go for a temporary dual system for my most important stable Linux.
Another way is to have a fresh full backup that could be restored if necessary.
Regards
Neville
3 Likes
Same here.
Not exactly for driver problems, but it’s still not “production ready” until I declare it so. So until that the older version is the “production system”, and the newer is a “playground”. After it receives the “production” mark, the old system gets discarded completley.
1 Like
Hi, Paul
The reason for multi boot is not so much for her but for me to ensure I have access.
In case you didn’t see the issues I encountered a couple of months ago, I did the upgrade to Linux Mint remotely. And it failed to boot. (Lesson learned!) If I had not had a dual boot system in place, there would be nothing I could have done from 1000 mi away. No one near my mom knows anything about computers (they all use phones nowadays) and certainly nothing about Linux; and by only needing someone to reboot while I was on video call and could see the screen,was I able to direct them to arrow down to the other Linux (Kubuntu) and boot that up. Since then, I have been running Kubuntu without issue.
Even with the live USB I left, it would have been time-consuming to involve someone else to sit on the phone and get that booted up and try to resolve why LM failed to boot remotely, having them run CLI.
Ever since my mom fractured her spine and was basically out of it for weeks, she no longer does much on the computer. She is too confused. So I am not really concerned about her having different distros and needing to recognize how to do things differently on them, it is for my sake that I ensure I always have access by not having to use a live session, but already having another distro installed for me to continue handling her affairs from afar.
My thinking of adding a third Linux is only because after what happened with LM and now Kubuntu 23.10 is end of life and needs an upgrade, I am a bit paranoid that all my preplanning by having a dual-boot system still ran into a snag, as I did not consider how having to upgrade a year after I set up the computer for her would impact things from such a distance.
Obviously now I realize all I need is to put a couple of LTS distros on there and then I won’t have to worry about upgrades for 5 years.
As I said in a previous post, I really need to figure out a better way to maintain her financial dealings from my computer vs having to rely on RDP. I still need RDP for when she does want something done as I have to basically do it for her.
I am talking basics here:
Mom: “I don’t remember how to see my emails”
Me: “Mom, it’s in the browser tab at the top left of Firefox”
Mom: “I don’t see it.”
I point with my cursor thinking she can follow it.
Mom: “This is just too hard.”
For email, we use Protonmail. And as they only just came out with an “electron” app for desktop email, I have not set it up yet.
Mom: “I wanted to search for that funeral home nearby since one of my friends at church passed away.”
Me: “Just type what you want to search for in the address bar or in a new tab in the big search area.”
Mom: “Address bar?”
I point to the area in a new tab
Mom: “This is all just so confusing. I just gave up.”
I could go on, but this is why it is easier to just do it for her. Get on her computer, run the search, choose from the results and display the one she needs.
I now have to check her emails daily 2-3 times and read to her anything important. as well as delete all of them. She used to do this herself before the injury.
Hopefully she gets better after her surgery in a couple of weeks, as she has never been this helpless before. I blame the pain meds.
Thanks,
Sheila
4 Likes
I am not sure if you mean on my home server or for her. For my own, I just use the NFS server for all of my machines and backups are redundant across multiple drives there.
Let me stress that there is no longer anything on her computer that needs backing up except the financial data like bank statements, credit card statements, and all of that can easily be obtained again from the respective websites. My spreadsheet data is backed up on her free Mega account. I need to just send that to me via email so I have it here to work with, but the issue is having to login to all of her accounts needs to be done from her machine due to security codes via phone, etc.
I don’t know if we could talk to each of these entities and get them to have my info be a source of access, it has been too hard to get her to do any of that right now. That is why I am just handling things as if it is her doing it all.
So I guess I would need a whole new thread to get started on the “host your own” cloud. It sounds complex. I do have a NextCloud account as I always meant to learn how to set up my own. Same with other things I currently pay a service for, like Etesync for cal-dav, even Bitwarden can be self-hosted. I got rid of all cloud services for me. So it would be good to set up my own.
The VM idea is nice. Had not thought of that.
I will see if I can follow what you are talking about on the customization of installing Debian. When I install a distro, I just accept it as is and only “add” things that are missing such as service scripts or apps. I do add packages when needed to support apps but I would have no clue what to “exclude.”
As for writing a script in the customization, I have no clue. I get my systems setup as I need them, then I make Clonezilla images and use Timeshift for the OS. This method sounds interesting and I will need to get the steps outlined so that I can follow them in creating one.
Thanks,
Sheila
4 Likes
Yes, I meant, but I was obviously wrong.
My memory tricked me on this one. We were discussing some time ago about Nextcloud, Seafile, Resilio sync, etc… and I believed you had set up something like that.
Sorry, NFS is definitely not for sharing over public internet.
Mega has a desktop sync tool, that’s fine too.
Things that are unnecessary, or disturbing in some way.
When I tried to get used to Gnome, I installed a Gnome version of Debian.
A whole heap of games came with it, which I added to my purge list back then 
With KDE I don’t like the Plasma Discover, and Dragon player for example…
But it’s just me, you may have different preferences.
Well, I just do it, and after all it results in some files somewhere.
It’s about to restore them.
At the moment I can’t give a perfect recype, for Gnome, Cinnamon, MATE there’s a dconf dump that saves current settings of current user to a text file, which is possible to import using dconf load upon restore. That works even for another user, just the saved text file needs to be edited to remove references of the username. (Upon restore the default or existing settings in dconf are kept, so only the to-be-modified settings get overwritten from the loaded text file then).
KDE has only text files as configs.
That works too.
My situation differs a bit, I have more computers, and if I change something I redo that change on multiple computers and/or for multiple users on them.
The steps are easy.
Say I need Virtualbox, I look the way how to install it.
Then I add those steps into the script.
The first part of that is to setup the repositories I want to use, so copy this into thast part:
echo "deb [arch=amd64] https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian bookworm contrib" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/virtualbox.list
wget -q https://www.virtualbox.org/download/oracle_vbox_2016.asc -O- | gpg --dearmor -o /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/vbox.gpg
Later somewher I write the command that actually installs that:
apt install -y virtualbox-7.0
Voi’la, the stepr to install Virtualbox are in the script now.
Not a rocket science
Sure, I can show you my current system-setup script, which cares for the core system. This is meant for KDE now.
#!/bin/bash
cat <<_EOF >/etc/apt/sources.list
# See https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList for more information.
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm main non-free-firmware
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-updates main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-updates main non-free-firmware
deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ bookworm-security main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ bookworm-security main non-free-firmware
# Backports allow you to install newer versions of software made available for this release
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-backports main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-backports main non-free-firmware
_EOF
apt update
apt install wget -y
dpkg --add-architecture i386
echo "deb [signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/ungvar44.gpg ] https://ungvar44.dynu.net/repo/bookworm ./ " > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ungvar44.list
curl -sS https://ungvar44.dynu.net/repo/bookworm/public.gpg | gpg --dearmor | tee /usr/share/keyrings/ungvar44.gpg
wget https://linux-clients.seafile.com/seafile.asc -O /usr/share/keyrings/seafile-keyring.asc
echo "deb [arch=amd64 signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/seafile-keyring.asc] https://linux-clients.seafile.com/seafile-deb/$(lsb_release -cs)/ stable main" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/seafile.list
echo "deb [arch=amd64 signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/seafile-keyring.asc] https://linux-clients.seafile.com/seadrive-deb/$(lsb_release -cs)/ stable main" >> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/seafile.list
apt update
curl -sS https://download.spotify.com/debian/pubkey_6224F9941A8AA6D1.gpg | gpg --dearmor | tee /usr/share/keyrings/spotify.gpg
echo "deb [signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/spotify.gpg] http://repository.spotify.com stable non-free" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/spotify.list
curl -fsSL https://shop.softmaker.com/repo/linux-repo-public.key | gpg --dearmor | tee /usr/share/keyrings/softmaker.gpg
echo "deb [signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/softmaker.gpg] https://shop.softmaker.com/repo/apt stable non-free" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/softmaker.list
curl -fSsL https://dl.google.com/linux/linux_signing_key.pub | gpg --dearmor | tee /usr/share/keyrings/google-chrome.gpg
echo "deb [arch=amd64 signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/google-chrome.gpg] http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable main" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-chrome.list
curl -fSsL https://download.teamviewer.com/download/linux/signature/TeamViewer2017.asc | gpg --dearmor | tee /usr/share/keyrings/teamview.gpg
echo "deb [arch=amd64 signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/teamview.gpg] http://linux.teamviewer.com/deb stable main" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/teamviewer.list
echo "deb [arch=amd64] https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian bookworm contrib" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/virtualbox.list
wget -q https://www.virtualbox.org/download/oracle_vbox_2016.asc -O- | gpg --dearmor -o /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/vbox.gpg
apt update
apt upgrade -y
#alap alkatrészek
apt install -y openssh-server mc sshpass lshw cups cups-client foomatic-db system-config-printer intel-microcode firmware-linux ttf-mscorefonts-installer va-driver-all vdpau-driver-all samba smbclient python3-smbc rsync smartmontools sysstat htop earlyoom dcfldd pavucontrol-qt kio-fuse kio-admin kio-gdrive -y
#multimédia
apt install -y haruna minikonverter-qt musescore3 guvcview mediainfo-gui fontforge audacity
apt install -y obs-studio obs-advanced-scene-switcher ffmpeg obs-color-monitor -t bookworm-backports
#grafika
apt install -y skanlite skanpage gimp fontforge inkscape scribus dia xnview xsane rawtherapee
#virt
apt install -y virtualbox-7.0
#szerszám
apt install -y doublecmd-qt
#tabnulás és játék
apt install -y r-base rstudio
#apt install -y geogebra-classic stellarium avogadro -y
#apt install -y supertuxkart 0ad -y
#internet
apt install -y google-chrome-stable m3dviewer 4kvideodownloaderplus zoom discord chromium chromium-l10n thunderbird thunderbird-l10n-hu caprine
apt install -y seafile-gui seadrive-gui
apt instyll -y megasync
apt install -y spotify-client
#iroda
apt install -y myfonts
apt install -y gimagereader-qt5 tesseract-ocr tesseract-ocr-hun gucharmap pdfarranger softmaker-freeoffice-2021 kontact
apt install -y -t bookworm-backports calibre libreoffice-qt5 libreoffice-l10n-hu --install-recommends
#java
apt install -y oracle-jre
#windows helyett
apt install -y wine winetricks
#rendszerpiszka
cp smb.conf /etc/samba/
cp net.conf /etc/sane.d/
cp pulse /etc/ -R
cp network /etc/ -R
echo fs.inotify.max_user_watches=524288 | sudo tee -a /etc/sysctl.conf
echo vm.min_free_kbytes=8192| tee -a /etc/sysctl.conf
## USB írható admin nélk.
echo 'KERNEL=="sd*", SUBSYSTEMS=="usb", MODE="0666"' | sudo tee /etc/udev/rules.d/99-usb-storage.rules
##ez csak a quicksynchez kell
apt -y install intel-media-va-driver-non-free
##tisztítás
apt purge vlc plasma-discover dragonplayer goldendict usbguard apache* flatpak* exim* gnome-software tracker* unattended-upgrades snap* anthy*
apt autoremove --purge
Don’t run this on your own instance, you may not want to have installed all my own bloatware. This is also useless because the copied-over config files, such as smb.conf, plseaudio configs, etc. are not attached here.
This is just an example…
5 Likes
Hi Sheila, 
Yes, in theory you´re right.
But please bear in mind that not all (Ubuntu-based) LTS distros are supported for 5 years.
Ubuntu: yes. And also Linux MInt.
But the so-called official Ubuntu-derivatives (e.g. Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Mate etc.) are only supported for 3 years with regard to their LTS-versions.
Taking Lubuntu as an example:
Lubuntu is a lightweight and fast operating system based on Ubuntu, designed to run on older or less powerful hardware. Lubuntu is a community-supported project and its support period is determined by the upstream support for the version of Ubuntu it is based on.
Ubuntu LTS (Long Term Support) releases, which are typically released every two years, receive 5 years of support, while non-LTS releases receive 9 months of support. Lubuntu, being a derivative of Ubuntu, follows the same support cycle. This means that Lubuntu based on an LTS release will receive 3 years of support, while Lubuntu based on a non-LTS release will receive 9 months of support.
Since Lubuntu is designed for older or less powerful hardware, it may not make sense to provide long-term support for a version of Ubuntu that might not receive support for the same period.
Therefore, the Lubuntu community has chosen to provide a support period that is appropriate for the target hardware and the upstream Ubuntu version.It is worth noting that while the official support period for Lubuntu is 3 years, the community may choose to provide additional support beyond that time frame through backports or other means.
(source: an ancient chat I once had with ChatGPT)
Linux Lite (the OS I´m using at the moment) receives 5 years of support.
Well, it´s not considered an “official” Ubuntu derivative.
So you may want to make sure the LTS variant you´re going to install will indeed receive updates for 5 years.
Many greetings from Rosika 
4 Likes
I am fine with your idea Neville, but bit different for an experienced user as you know which to select from the grub menu and do jt within a time frame but inexperienced or older may forget and just let it boot automatically and go into older or not working. Even worse is if the boot loader or grub fails then you are still stuck unable to load anything.
I had that myself last week, had an older box on lmde 5 and tried to go to 6 using command line as directed by the mint site … failed mid point and then would not boot. User error or just a issue no idea. Fix was download new version and re install.
I did it cli to learn more so not a worry on my part just know a little more now than i did before hopefully
1 Like
Hi, @Rosika!
Thank you for that clarification. So Kubuntu will not get 5 years? I thought it was because I was on the non-LTS version that it needed an upgrade now, but if I had stayed on 22.04, it would have support until 2025? not 2027?
I had never really payed attention to when support ends for any Linux as I always just upgrade LOL. But now that I know, I can plan for Linux Mint to be supported longer than Kubuntu, since on my mom’s computer it does matter. 
Thanks,
Sheila
3 Likes
Hi Sheila,
you´re welcome. 
Right. It´ll get 3 years of support.
See here: JammyJellyfish/ReleaseNotes/Kubuntu - Ubuntu Wiki :
Support lifespan
Kubuntu 22.04 will be supported for 3 years.
And here you get the usual resoning behind it:
Why is support lifespan for Kubuntu only 3 years while standard support lifespan for Ubuntu is 5 years?
The support for Kubuntu (and other flavours) is by community volunteers, not paid Canonical staff. 3 years is a compromise for flavours so that it is manageable for these volunteers.
(For non-LTS versions the support is 9 months, if I´m not mistaken.)
Kubuntu - Wikipedia also confirms that Kubuntu 22.04 LTS is supported until 2025-04-24.
Hope it helps.
Right.
It´s the same with Linux Lite (5 ys. support). That´s one of the reasons I chose it for my purposes.
Many greetings from Rosika
3 Likes
Hi sheila
Thanks for your very detailed reply regarding your situation with your mum. Cannot be easy for either of you at this time. Sadly older ages, health issues and medication do not help no matter what system you choose and how it is run.
My thoughts go out to you both.
Technology can be complex and even more so at a distance.
This may not be an answer for you, but i have a couple of clients who are not really able to cope with technology but still want mail, photos, Internet and very rare letter to write or print.
We have a system here in france
Its really simple, big buttons, few choices, hard to get it wrong… but of course its in french. I am sure there are similar systems in english which may be worth investigating.
I dont sell ordissimo, so its not a free plug. But an idea for others in similar places. Only issue would be the accounting part not sure how that would work out.
Yes its written in linux.
There systems are a bit expensive.
I gave my dad a apple with system 8 many years back so he coukd access the net and do his shares on line. But sadly he could not cope with numbers in excel so when it did not add up he called me, computer does not work ! When really he was typing space then number, or number coma decimal, or letter l or i instead of number one.
Frustrating for us both.
But with mac os 8 and big buttons he managed.
But then he wanted colour so bought himself a netbook, far to small screen and keyboard plus windows sold by a local shop then paid them a fortune to install it and make it work then many return trips for virus issues when really it was user error.
3 Likes
I can think of two ways to handle this.
1 - Have a conference call with you, your mother and the company. Your mother then could her permission to make changes. ie; mailing address, phone number, auto paid, etc.
2 - Power of Attorney - “A power of attorney or letter of attorney is a written authorization to represent or act on another’s behalf in private affairs, business, or some other legal matter.” Of course, your mother would have to be willing to grant it.
Even tho it is called “Power of Attorney” it can be done without an attorney. When I had to handle my mother’s affairs, I printed a Power of Attorney off the internet, I believe it was a $20 fee, and had my mother sign it and got it notarize.
PS. I believe she has to sign it in front of the person doing the notarization.
2 Likes
Thanks, @easyt50. The thought of making all of those calls with her in conference is what has held me back so far. She tires easily, sleeps much of the day and I work during the day as well.
But she does have a power of attorney drafted up in her living trust that was for me to be able to take over all of this when the time came. It might be time.
Never having used POA, I am unsure how that works, or even if it works, in digital format. We could, of course mail to each credit card company/bank, doctors, utilities, insurance, etc., but I will need to find out if we still have to have phone calls in order to set me up as the main point of contact or if I can do that electronically as well.
I have been putting it all off in hopes she would return to her old self, which I cannot be sure of till she is off the pain meds.
If I had everything accessible from my end, the only need would be to get her one computer set back up with Linux Mint and then I would only need access to it for aiding her in the tasks she does use it for: email, sending the family messages on Facebook and printing our her crossword puzzles. Oh, and watching church services remotely since she is homebound.
Before this, she was using the computer a lot more, as she was still an Avon lady, just as she was when I was a child
I will look into the POA and see if that is the best way to go forward.
Thanks,
Sheila
1 Like
Hi, Paul
The accounting does not have to be on her computer. The only reason it is now is because all of the data I need from her bank websites, etc. has to be accessed from her computer so that I can login as her, get the codes from her phone for security at login, since her phone is connected via KDE Connect.
So if I can accomplish what @easyt50 talked about and have everything accessible from my computers, then my machines can handle all the accounting needed.
She would still need something like you mentioned, big buttons is a plus, as she obviously can not even distinguish between tabs in a browser, they are just too small.
I will check into that, but I just wonder if the same could not be accomplished in Linux with customizations. Thanks for that idea. I will do some research and see if anyone has made such customizations for older folks who need not just bigger fonts, everything needs to be easily seen and labeled, as she does not recognize “icons” the way we do. And getting it down to few options, where user error is at a minimum is definitely a plus. Everytime I get on her phone she has swiped away all the shortcuts I set for her, moved apps she uses from the home screen and has no idea how to find them.
I am confident there is a solution, I just haven’t found it yet.
Thanks,
Sheila
1 Like
Hi Sheila,
There are distros for people with disabilities.
See the links in this topic
Regards
Neville
1 Like
Sheila, I used Consumer Cellular for several years with great success. They have a product called a Grandpad–big buttons, bright screen. Don’t know about the OS. Amazon has some very inexpensive chromebooks that might also be suitable for your mom.
We’re all willing to help.
2 Likes