Antix-23.1_init_diversity_edition

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41

I see

Dinit is available , but there is no download with Antix/dinit yet. You have to install it yourself.

That is progress.

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42

If I may be so bold, what differences are there in init systems? Please explain it to me as if I were your troglodyte uncle.

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43

The differences are mainly , but not completely internalā€¦software design and how it works.
Its like what engine do you have in your car?.. they all drive the car, and performance differences are minor.

That said, what an init system mainly does is

  • Start the first process after the kernel is running
  • Start or stop any service processes ( ie daemon processes)
    It may also, if it has ā€˜supervisionā€™
  • check on running daemon processes
  • restart failed daemon processes

One init system (systemd) does a lot more than that, and that is what there is some argument about.

So how does it make a difference?

  • some init systems boot faster than others
  • some init systems are easier to configure than others
  • some distros offer gui config, but only for non-systemd injt systems
  • for servers there are more complicated issues like grouping services into bundles , and distinguishing different types of services (eg. oneshot services do a task and then die , normal services run forever, bundled services allow yiu to manage ..a group of related services an one.)
  • for home users, all they ever want is for a few essential services to start at boot time.

I am sorry, Bill, I tried but that effort is not good enough.
I will think about it.

The init diversity people would say it is about having a choiceā€¦ init freedom if you like.
You could, for example, ask what difference having a choice of Linux distro makes?
The answer is it expands your world.

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44

Well yes, there is some effort involved to package all services required to justify an official iso, not only for dinit but also for other supported inits.

ā€¦and it is progress as this isnā€™t available in Debian despite the efforts from upstream to upload to debian, and it wasnā€™t available for antiX 3 months agoā€¦

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45

Debian has got itself into a tight corner. There are a growing number of systemd incursions into their packages, and each one of those makes it more difficult to swap in another init system.

There is a dinit-on-devuan project

I have not looked at it.

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46

Boot time is generally equal between distros; my perception normally finds them all equal. Grouping services, configurationsā€“as you say, they all drive the car. Since Iā€™m the only user, differences are trivial, in the mathematical sense.

The biggest differences I see between distros is package management. I usually find that Synaptic and apt/dnf is the most reliable way to install/uninstall packages; most included package managers are less useful. FunOS has probably the most interesting and reliable package manager scheme.

While I appreciate the brain power on display in this forum, comparing init systems reminds me of nothing as much as wheel-spinning in a parking lot.

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47

At least between families of distros.

Because you are not interested in the internals.
If you had a choice between 1.5 million lines of systemd code, and a few thousand lines of code in dinit, and both would do everything you wanted, which would you choose?

Simplifying something is progress.

ā€œKnowledge is a process of piling up facts; wisdom lies in their simplification.ā€

Dinit is more clever than systemd., in the same way that a simple maths equation is better than a complicated equation.

"A simple equation is often considered better than a complicated one because itā€™s easier to understand, solve, and apply "

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48

Yes, Neville, I can appreciate the work that goes into building an init system and the cleverness that makes the work sparkle. I represent the end users who only need a keyboard, a mouse, and a monitor for a completely satisfactory experience.

The Cool Funny Quote reminds me of my last 10 years on the job, where I was tasked with helping old timers transition from cards and paper to disks and digital files. Some chose to retire rather than let go of the paper. When I retired in 2005, I was thrilled to set up my Linux machine at home and toss Windows in the trash for good.

I donā€™t look under my carā€™s hood, either. I do know not to change the oil in our Subaru Solterra, though.

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49

Hi Bill,
I did something similar in the 1980ā€™s. I remember one fellow had so much trouble learning to use a keyboard he decided to retire.
It is sad, but we all face it. There are things now that daunt meā€¦ driving long distances, social events, funerals, mobile phones, ā€¦ but not computers.

I have enjoyed this debate Bill. It made me think.
I acknowledge that the average user does not even notice the init system when using Linux.
The whole kernel (ie all of linux) is unseen. People only see the DE and the apps.
Even if you use CLI, you are only seeing a shell.

Regards
Neville

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50

This has been abandoned, but Mobin the maintainer of this former project has been contributing to dinit code upstream

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