F'ing wifi again - PITA (the acronym not the unleavened bread!)

daniel.m.tripp · May 29, 2023, 10:15am

The problem is - as discussed and previously stated - the driver shows up - is listed in “ip” output… Sometimes connects to my 2.4 Ghz WAP, sees my 5 Ghz WAP but NEVER connects (but keeps coming back as if the password is wrong when I KNOW it is RIGHT!)… Connects just fine to my WiFi tethering on my Android phone…
I was thinking it might be a Kernel 6 issue - but just booted Ubuntu 22.04.2 on it - and same deal, 2.4 Ghz works / connects from the Live Boot image, but NEVER the 5 Ghz…

I think I’m going to settle for Ubuntu 22.04.2 on this thing - use ethernet and 2.4 Ghz WiFi… Thing is I have sworn it was working before, but I could be wrong - maybe it only ever worked on 2.4 Ghz…

I’ve seen a few things on Ubuntu or Mint forums where they lost WiFi after connecting to ethernet… But in my case, WiFi isn’t lost - it still shows up - it shows various WiFi networks within range, but the only one I can reliably connect to is with WiFi Tethering on my Android phone, and my 2.4 Ghz WAP works unreliably intermittently…

nevj · May 29, 2023, 12:58pm

OK, I needed reminding.
Daniel, I think the issue is that one can never assume that any distro will configure WiFi to suit all possible uses. It may tether, and hotspot, but not work with your modem.
The possible reasons are

wpa_supplicant.conf has different sections to deal with different types of connection. They may not all be there
some network daemons, particularly NetworkManager will write stuff to wpa_supplicant.conf, particularly when you attempt to make a connection… so it can change behind your back. Also they dont always get it right.
network wizards will change wpa_supplicant.conf

So the result is one’s WiFi configuration is unstable, as well as possibly not correct initially when installed.
This is very unsatisfactory.

I dont know how to get control of the situation. The following may work

if you only want one type of connection, setup wpa_supplicant.conf by hand, and make it read only so nothing can change it… or keep a backup copy to overwrite it with if something undermines it. That is what I have been doing.
if you want the laptop flexible WiFi situation, either get a multi-use hand config, and freeze it, or somehow get NetworkManager to do the right thing.

I spent a lot of time on this , when I wanted Gentoo to use Wifi as the primary network interface, but my case was simpler than yours. There are wpa_supplicant.conf examples all over the internet… most of them are overcomplicated and wrong for my case. I ended up using a simple setup from an article by Abhishek. It is a modem- only case.

The only helpful hint I can give is keep it as simple as possible. Remove all the optional crud and just find the bare minimum config that works for you. Then when you have it, stop anything else from overwriting it.

daniel.m.tripp · May 30, 2023, 1:02am

It’s reasonably stable on the VAST bulk of everything that’s connected - and I’m talking 20-30 (maybe more?) other devices all happily using either the 2.4 or 5 Ghz WAPs.

Some devices don’t support the 5 Ghz WAP - that’s fine - but full computers kinda need that 5 Ghz WAP for things like streaming content, so if that Thinkpad can only reliably do 2.4 - then its not much use to me… Reckon I’ll sell it or something - I wiped the HDD on it (i.e. deleted Windows 10) but easy enough to “restore” using Ventoy and Windows 10 22H2 - I have the OEM license details so I can activate it…

As mentioned - it could be unstable (Kobo don’t support 5 Ghz WiFi - but even 2.4 Ghz was sketchy on it) on my Kobo e-book reader - but - I mostly “sideloaded” e-books on there using USB and Calibre - and I don’t use it anymore anyway - I do all my e-book reading (I don’t read paper books anymore - text is too small for my lousy eyesight) on my iPad mini - mostly via Google Books (once again - mostly sideloaded - but over the internet or WiFi).

I’ve been using “dd” since forever - over 25 years - but I kinda like Balena 'cause it dumbs nearly everything down nicely for me and I get a proper progress indicator (dd with “status=progress conv=sync” seems to do bugger all - I get no proper progress indicator - and STILL have run “sudo sync” after anyway and that runs for a while)…

nevj · May 30, 2023, 3:36am

Have you checked if the realtek driver is the latest version?

By unstable, I meant it changes the ,conf file behind my back. if the changes work, that is fine, but they dont always work and then you have a dud config. That is my experience of WiFi…not happy.

daniel.m.tripp · May 30, 2023, 4:13am

Tried a Live image of Ubuntu 23.04 and it refused to connect to either 2.4 or 5 Ghz…

I changed / tweaked a few settings on my router - set the 5 Ghz from default :

Authentication : “WPA2”
Encryption : “AES”

To :

Authentication : “Mixed WPA / WPA2-PSK”
Encryption : “TKIP/AES”

Which made bugger all difference…

So I tried that setting on my 2.4 Ghz WAP - and - 23.04 (Live Boot) can now connect to it… Maybe it’s time for a new router? This one’s over 5 years old now… I HATE chucking stuff out though…

Now I’m going to try again with the Thinkpad right in front of the router… Wish me luck…

No difference 30-40 metres away in another room, or 1 metre away in the same room - no 5 Ghz…

Additionally - my Pop!_OS desktop machine has ZERO issues connecting to either 2.4 or 5 Ghz WAP - but inxi is a bit vague on the chipset :

Network:
  Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet
    vendor: Micro-Star MSI X570-A PRO driver: r8169 v: kernel port: d000
    bus-ID: 27:00.0
  IF: enp39s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
  Device-2: Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX200 driver: iwlwifi v: kernel bus-ID: 29:00.0
  IF: wlp41s0 state: up mac: <filter>
Bluetooth:
  Device-1: Intel AX200 Bluetooth type: USB driver: btusb v: 0.8
    bus-ID: 1-6.3:7
  Report: hciconfig ID: hci0 rfk-id: 0 state: up address: <filter>
    bt-v: 3.0 lmp-v: 5.2

I included Bluetooth there - 'cause my PCIe bluetooth card is also my WiFi adaptor… I don’t really use WiFi on my desktop machine - why? I’ve got gigabit ethernet…
Here it is in “lspci -k” output :

29:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Wi-Fi 6 AX200 (rev 1a)
	Subsystem: Intel Corporation Wi-Fi 6 AX200NGW
	Kernel driver in use: iwlwifi
	Kernel modules: iwlwifi

I might check out if I can replace the laptop PCIe wifi card in this Thinkpad… I suspect however, that Lenovo will have that soldered onto the motherboard…

Well - it looks like the WiFi card is a PCIe FRU (field replaceable unit)…
And Intel AX210 chipset card can be got from Amazon for around $25 mark… Sounds like a plan…

And done - ordered from Amazon with a wireless charger for my Samsung (got a wireless charging compatible cover on the way from Amazon too - ordered earlier - still waiting) and free delivery!
ETA - a fortnight - I think I can persevere with janky 2.4 Ghz and/or ethernet until then

Next Payday I reckon I’ll bump it up to 32 GB RAM and get another (or 2) 1 TB NVMe SSD… Make distrohopping a tad easier (I’ve got a USB NVMe dongle thingie already)

nevj · May 30, 2023, 12:19pm

It cant be the router. Every other computer talks to it.

Intel AX200 driver. I thought it was Realtek.
Yes updating the WiFi card is a good guess. When you put it in, might have to reinstall to get a driver loaded.
My experience with Intel stuff is it usually works… have had issues with Realtek.

Cheers
Neville

pdecker · May 30, 2023, 4:02pm

What did Windows 10 do with 5Ghz on the laptop?

daniel.m.tripp · May 30, 2023, 11:39pm

Never tried it (Windows 10)… Wiped it and installed Ubuntu 20.04 when it arrived (2021) from ebay… I reckon I shoulda kept it ( I replaced the 256 SSD with a 1 TB about a month after it arrived)…

Anyway - got a Laptop PCIe formfact Intel chipset arriving from Amazon in the next fortnight…

I don’t think I’ll have to re-install the O/S - I reckon it’ll “just work”… just like when I was running Ubuntu 20.04 on my desktop machine - inserted the combo BlueTooth / WiFi PCIe card, and it “just worked”…

After all that pain - I coulda kept Pop!_OS on there (running Ubu 23.04 now) - but it did need a rebuild 'cause something I did made LUKS really REALLY slow to decrypt “/” and boot the UI (like 10 minutes? that’s way too long!)… Can’t even remember what I did to make it do that, never bothered to search for a fix as I barely ever boot laptops (I just leave them running all the time - with lid closed overnight)!

My Pop!_OS desktop is also using LUKS and no dramas here…

pdecker · May 31, 2023, 1:34am

I leave things running too. Probably too much.

Closing lids triggers me. You see it on TV and movies. People just slam the lid closed and take off. Way too often it isn’t really shutdown or in power saving mode, but overheating in the laptop bag. AAARRRGGG!!!

I leave my work laptop on all night most nights, but the first thing I do is shutdown and startup again. Then laugh when people complain about how Windows does some crazy thing. That fresh start avoids lots of problems for me.

daniel.m.tripp · June 1, 2023, 8:21am

OK - “not solved” really, after all…

While ostensibly it can connect “in theory” to my 2.4 Ghz WAP - and get an IP address - it’s apallingly slow - almost unusable - e.g. when I ping my WAP / router device, I get apalling times like 1000+ ms response, and when I ping devices beyond that I get ping echoes, some, but up to 90% packet drop!

So - this Thinkpad is effectively a boat anchor or a fixed in place desktop until I can get a better WiFi chipset for it…

So - stay tuned - fingers crossed the new Intel AX210x chipset laptop PCIe adaptor slots in and works plug and play (like when I slotted in an Intel AX200 WiFi / Bluetooth PCIe device to my AMD desktop machine - Ubuntu just found it and it “just worked”)… Don’t know if that will replace the Laptop’s BlueTooth or not…

I guess these issues have only been highlighted since I only recently started using it as a laptop sitting on my front stoop watching the sun set (also nice views of planes heading in to land at Perth Airport - lot busier these days than it was 2-3 years ago at the heights of Covid hard borders).

Note : both my MacBooks work flawlessly on 5 Ghz WiFi inside, or outside, the house… As did both of my Dell laptops running Ubuntu when I used to smoke (don’t get me started - been falling off the wagon again just lately) and sit outside (patio on the other side of the house) chilling, or working… Note: I gave up on 31/05/2021, and mostly stayed off ever since, but started again recently, on and off… had my LAST ONE EVER this morning (famous last words).

nevj · June 1, 2023, 8:32am

I got that sort of thing once with an out of date realtek driver on an ethernet port. It was filling the network up with rubbish packages.

daniel.m.tripp · June 1, 2023, 8:47am

I guess I could follow up that avenue, and try and get it working, but I’m in no rush - I prefer plug and play, and never had any dramas with Intel network chipsets (unless you count the times I set IRQ and DMA on ISA cards and compiled those into the 1.2.13 kernel on Slackware 3 - but - they were still better than the likes of 3COM and NE2000 clones!).

Just thought of another avenue - I could try and take a look at the WiFi cards in my Dell laptops - but no - I reckon I’ll just wait it out for amazon…

pdecker · June 1, 2023, 2:10pm

The good old days.

nevj · June 1, 2023, 2:29pm

I can remember compiling stuff into a freebsd kernel for some ethernet card.
Things have improved.

daniel.m.tripp · June 2, 2023, 4:08am

Talk about “can of worms”…

Decided to suck it and see - took the WiFi card out of a Dell Latitude (E7250) and installed it in the Lenovo… So far - plug and play…

Power up : can now get 5 Ghz wifi and no more abominable ping echos or lost ICMP packets…

Bluetooth? NO! NO! NO! I can pair a mouse (Logitech Bluetooth) that was paired before (had to re-pair), but not my Logitech K380 keyboard! It’s not a showstopper… When it’s on my “desk return” I mostly drive it from my Linux desktop with Synergy - and when I use it as a laptop away from my desk - I use the laptop keyboard, touchpad AND the trackpoint…

Also - I get constant echoes in bluetoothctl of CHG, NEW, DEL and scrolling of bluetooth messages (making it nearly unusable) - read somewhere that’s a kernel 6 thingie with this chipset (inxi -b) :

Device-2: Intel Wireless 7265 driver: iwlwifi
Device-3: Intel Bluetooth wireless interface type: USB driver: btusb

I’m hoping the Intel AX210 chipset WiFi mini-PCIe I’m getting from Amazon will resolve ALL my issues…

Just updated and rebooted - stopped and started bluetooth - can now pair the K380 keyboard too - so all good for the time being… Gonna test drive it on my front porch when the sun passes the yardarm (beer o’clock)…

Nope - still not resolved - now the mouse drops out of pairing and won’t reconnect… There’s always something damn! Hopefully the Intel AX210 will solve my woes…

daniel.m.tripp · June 2, 2023, 9:50am

My post beer o’clock “sittin’ on the stoop” (with a glass or two of red wine) worked - I was online - and it was acceptable (5 Ghz) :

I still have high hopes for the AX210 intel WiFi and bluetooth chipset…

I could have stood up to take that photo of the fading sunlight on the gum trees - but then you’d have missed out on seeing my “BASH” sticker on the bottom of my laptop (Thinkpad) screen

nevj · June 2, 2023, 11:27am

I like the fence. Very impressive.

Are you saying that you can (when things work) connect a second keyboard and a mouse to your laptop via bluetooth? Does it just recognise the second keyboard, or do you have to configure?

daniel.m.tripp · June 2, 2023, 11:37am

Yes - and - hours later - both still connected… no such luck for bluetooth headset… connected and got sound, but it was so jumpy and halting - not worth the effort… Note to self : use a 3.5 mm audio jack when I want music or sound (hopefully fixed with AX210 bluetooth chipset)…

daniel.m.tripp · June 14, 2023, 6:07am

OK - I have “new wifi” now…

New router / modem with 2.4 and 5 Ghz…

The “errant” Thinkpad I was having issues with behaved well…

But I’d ordered the AXP210 thingie and it just arrived today - installed it (excerpt from “inxi -Fxz”) :

 Device-2: Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX210/AX211/AX411 160MHz driver: iwlwifi v: kernel
    bus-ID: 04:00.0
  IF: wlp4s0 state: up mac: <filter>
Bluetooth:
  Device-1: Intel AX210 Bluetooth type: USB driver: btusb v: 0.8 bus-ID: 2-1:2
  Report: hciconfig ID: hci0 rfk-id: 0 state: up address: <filter>

wpa_supplicant (I think?) played very well and just connected straightaway with the new WiFi NIC… The “(I think?)” refers to confusion as to what thing Ubuntu is currently using, I can’t keep track, sometimes its netplan (e.g. on my Ubuntu 22.04 server on a Pi4, I had to update / modify / tweak netplan to connect to the new WiFi WAPs), sometimes it’s network-manager… Why can’t they just be consistent???

Bluetooth? No, I had to pair again but that worked (and was working before).

I’ve just been testing my WiFi with iperf3 and getting some odd results…

I run the server (iperf3 -s -B SERVER.WIFI.IP.ADD) and both Macs running iperf3 -c SERVERI.WIFI.IP.ADD -B LOCAL.WIFI.IP.ADD I’m seeing ~200 Mbit throughput… But - my desktop machine also has a Intel AX200 WiFi chipset, and server, or client, only getting 100 Mbit…

Just to be sure, to be sure, I tried the 2.4 Ghz WiFi, and seeing 5-10 Mbit - to be expected…

Desktop machine (excerpt from inxi -Fxz output) :

  Device-2: Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX200 driver: iwlwifi v: kernel bus-ID: 29:00.0
  IF: wlp41s0 state: up mac: <filter>

So - the Thinkpad’s running Ubuntu 23.04, and using “AX210/AX211/AX411 160MHz driver”, the slower WiFi desktop machine running Pop!_OS 22.04 (fairly recently updated) is using “AX200 driver” - so I’m guessing AX200 and AX210 are different doohickeys then… But I’m not going to try replacing the one in the desktop machine, 'cause it’s a deskop and it has Gigabit ethernet… I only bought that PCIe card for my machine to have better bluetooth (i.e. to replace a shonky Targus BT 4 USB dongle) - and only need / want WiFi in emergencies (e.g. if my switch dies, or my Ethernet over Power connection to the router in the kitchen fails)…

Overall - I’m happy with the AX210 series Intel chipset upgrade… worth the $25 anyway…

daniel.m.tripp · June 16, 2023, 8:32am

flippin 'eck!

Bluetooth Audio on this new card is diabolical… I can unpair - connect and re-pair - and it’s online and available in my audio sinks…

Cutover to another device (my Pop!_OS desktop and MacBooks work fine, connect, disconnect, I can have it paired to 2 x Macs, Pop! desktop and my android phone at the same time) - but if I disconnect from this Thinkpad I have to unpair, and pair again from scratch…

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, Bluetooth on Linux, when it works, feels like black magic, when it doesn’t it feels like bad juju… pezzo di merda!

Can’t vouch for Windows - I’ve no idea what it’s like as I don’t drive Windows very often these days (mostly when I do it’s via RDP to a server - as a jumpbox to then SSH to Linux / UNIX servers) - but it’s like Black Magic 100% of the time on MacOS, and NEVER get “bad juju” vibes from it!

Right now I’m doing my Friday arvo beer o’clock (Cooper’s Best Extra Stout, if you must ask) out on the porch (I call it “the stoop”) with my back to the West, and watching the sunset “in reverse” (there was rainbow earlier!) - and got some tunes cranked up loud in Sayonara player - USING WIRED headphone jack - DIABOLICAL!