FsF Free software Foundation NVIDIA official disinformation

The consesus among Linux experts regarding Wayland and NVIDIA is basically the following:

If you want to use Wayland, under no circumstances use a NVIDIA graphics card.

Additionally, NVIDIA graphics cards have really bad support on Linux, in general.

If you have a stone old NVIDIA graphics card, which supports stone old tested and confirmed to work drivers, you perhaps can use it without issues. But anything that is newer than stone old, is most likely to cause issues when used on Linux.

Due to the different politics between what NVIDIA and what AMD does, AMD devices have always better Linux support than NVIDIA devices.

So if you want to use Wayland, you are pretty much damned to resort to an AMD GPU, for now. I also doubt this will change soon, as NVIDIA is basically the Intel of the GPU world and Intel is basically the Apple of the CPU world.

Dear Fossers - for me there are no graphics problems whatsoever with Trisquel gnulinux - it just seems as though problems exist for users of other Distros who just post content of useless unreferenced amateurish babble. I have no interest in Wayland at all - I just install Trisquel gnulinux 32 & 64bit on four disparate computers without an issue in the Real World and get straight on with workfow - Simple init…

However 15 seconds of research finds - according to the pro team at DistroWatch…

I typically run into problems of one sort or another when using Wayland…Ubuntu is sticking with X-Org for the default which probably still makes sense given the few corner cases where Wayland can still struggle…:face_with_raised_eyebrow: :slightly_smiling_face: :joy: :kissing_heart: :wink:
So, you good FOSSers, transient visitors and Noobs - I have great confidence that you can decide for yourselves to go with statements by pro reviewers of vast experience and knowledge such as those at DistroWatch or some rank amateur content… it’s a no brainer :no_entry_sign: :brain: - :rofl: :wink:

Correct me if I’m wrong, I am very much willing to learn. but there seems to be some confusion here about what “graphics card support” means.

I don’t know much about Wayland, but generally speaking, it seems to me that just displaying your screen isn’t such a problem with any card. “Lacking graphics card support” means that you’re not able to take real advantage of the special features of a given GPU, i.e. the superior rendering and calculation speed of such devices.

This becomes noticeable when using e.g. video editing software and games relying on the capabilities of these: They just won’t run properly or not at all under Linux.

In the case of Wayland it means, that with NVIDIA graphics cards you are not able to use Wayland features, not to mention using Wayland to its full potential. Currently, this is impossible to do with NVIDIA.

If you want full Wayland support, you must use an AMD graphics card. There is no way around it.

That also depends, as people understand different things under “display”. Most people think of a single working screen content display on their laptop screen. However, people like me, understand something like “it must work with my special setup of 6 screens, that need to be perfectly aligned in a certain way”, which is by so many lengths harder to achieve than just displaying a single laptop screen’s content with Linux.

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Hey @Mina you knew that would be music to my ears - someone willing to learn rather than the amateurs banging on without a clue - thanks. :slightly_smiling_face: :clap:

Welcome to my Real World the Virtual World of SolidWorks where $Billion dollar contracts are subject to GLOBAL competitive tendering.
A world where the software is shown off at its best by NVIDIA graphics. (Not some toy town amateur cr4p) Where you can show animations of your design including fly-past - Star Wars etc. Photo realistic rendering is a great tool to assist the sales team to win a contract or just shift product. (Not some amateurs playing around blabbing on and on and on without a clue)

Quote:- "photo-realistic SOLIDWORKS rendering software called SOLIDWORKS Visualize, which utilizes NVIDIA Iray technology, progressively refining its image through constant feedback…

Imagine trying to win a $Billion contract with their amateur setups… :frowning_face: :woozy_face:

What a Joke - :slightly_smiling_face: :smiley: :joy: :joy: :joy: :wink:

ps Found this old video showing one of my most simple designs for a clock pendulum regulator where my friend and art colleague made this little video of my design - note - even transparent opacity is no problem - shiny shafts no problem either…
http://www.johnsmithandsons.co.uk/

You will find the video at the bottom of the Restoration tab - Enjoy :kissing_heart:

ps Hey Mina could I ask you a stupid - question - not, your favourite colour whatever - but are there any pendulum clocks in Switzerland … Joke… :joy: :wink:

As you can see from the content above they presume to know better than major computer manufacturers and the editor of C-Net :astonished: :flushed: - unbelievable - have you ever come across such inflated egos :thinking: :wink:

Quote: CORSAIR ONE PRO enables faster video editing and rendering with the power of a multi-core Intel CPU and high performance NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ graphics.

:kissing_heart: :wink:

I feel the opposite, though I have to admit, I don’t have the most shiny new stuff in my PC.
I don’t use Wayland either.
But after switching from an AMD R9 380 to Nvidia GTX 1060 I felt like being in heaven.
I got both cards second hand, surely the Nvidia was newer, but I could change the cards with zero investment, because I could sell the AMD for the exact same money I needed to pay for the Nvidia (thanks to AMD enthusiasts :rofl:)
Result was less maximal power requirement (120W vs 190W), installing/upgrading (proprietary) drivers was as easy as “apt upgrade”, versus the AMD, for which I had to run their install script, which surely failed if there was an earlier version installed - leaving the system (Linux Mint that time) in a strange state, where the new drivers still not completely installed, but the old ones already partly removed…
But the real huge(!!!) benefit was that I got NVenc.
With NVenc I can transcode my DNxHD output from DR to h.264 with 150…270 fps (it could be probably even faster if I had faster storage, as the bottleneck is reading DNxHD from the disk).
I’m aware ov AMD’s VCE, but I’m not sure it works under Linux?
So I don’t think NVidia sucks so much under Linux. For me it works quite good.
I read there was some problem, when 5.10 kernel came, and Nvidia drivers stopped to work properly…
It took few weeks for Nvidia to update their drivers, so that it now supports 5.10 kernel.
(Correct me, if I’m wrong, I’m still on 4.19 kernel, so don’t know for sure exactly.)

I my recent experience - Ubuntu (18.04) refused to load X11 and would only allow GUI login to Wayland (GTX1650) when using Nouveau open source NVidia drivers - I had to install the Proprietary drivers to be able to login via X11 : i.e. I could only run Wayland using Nouveau (but I don’t even bother to try using it with Proprietary drivers - because plank dock won’t run)…

And it shows as explained below.

If that is the case for you, your card is extremely old or you are fine with using a stone aged driver. Otherwise, the procedure for driver installation is similar to AMD’s. Never had to use the AMD one, but the NVIDIA one is surely a pain in the ass.
Turn off your desktop environment. Install the driver the RIGHT WAY. If you do it the wrong way, well you have to revert everything back. Once you finally installed it the right way, you need to again turn on your desktop environment. What was the desktop environment’s package called again? Now you need to search for the package name. (Preferably through your phone or a laptop, or another desktop PC, because I don’t think people want to study how to use a CLI web browser just to update a GPU driver.) Oh, you have a special distribution, well fuck you, you don’t know how to turn on the desktop environment. Now you are forced to reboot and need to pray to Linus Torvalds during the boot-up process, that the driver did not just destroy your OS, resulting in booting into an emergency console or into a desktop environment-less desktop.

So, yes, that is how NVIDIA driver updates/installations went for me. If you just use apt upgrade you probably have the wrong drivers, i.e. too old, too little hardware feature support, etc.

Generally, AMD GPUs work better on Linux, because of their politics compared to NVIDIA’s. Therefore, I would strongly assume it will most likely work better than NVIDIA’s counterpart.

What a surprise.

It’s more because of the general high demand and low supply of graphics cards in general. I doubt it’s due to AMD enthusiasts, because most of them love AMD CPUs. AMD GPUs aren’t nearly as craved for as NVIDIA GPUs, as far as I know.

The problem with this driver set is simple: it’s shit. I don’t know what the case for it is in 2021, but the last time I used it years ago it was shitty as always:

  • It lacks features.
  • Sometimes it only uses like 10% of your GPU’s actual power. For example, it was normal for the desktop environment to lag, even if you don’t have any programs running, when you used these drivers. It could only get resolved by getting the proprietary drivers.
  • Often it just won’t work.
  • They mostly only support older GPUs. As far as I know, they won’t support any brand new GPUs magically out of the box.
  • Additionally to above already performance related points, I cannot stress the following enough: bad performance.

Basically, if you pay 1200 USD for a GPU you want to make absolutely sure you are able to use it to its full potential. Nobody wants to pay this price just to use Nouveau, which sometimes may artifically downgrade your card to what feels like a GT710 someone recently sneezed their snot onto its GPU, so things get glued together and can’t work properly anymore.

:rofl:
Stone old, yeah!
https://packages.debian.org/buster-backports/nvidia-driver

:rofl:
Display works, Cuda works, NVenc works.

laco@Nagygep-Debian:~$ nvidia-smi
Mon Mar 1 12:20:03 2021
| NVIDIA-SMI 460.39 Driver Version: 460.39 CUDA Version: 11.2 |

Yes, my experience with AMD-GPU-pro drivers was similar to this.

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Yup, if I pay 1200 USD for a graphics card, I do not under any circumstances want to use a driver that is about a year or two old (I didn’t find the exact numbers).

About a month ago I installed 461.40, which was the newest version at the time.
Now, a month later since then, I installed 461.72, which also was the newest version at the time.

See, where I am getting to? :wink:

Your reaction backfired so fantastically… Thank you for the evil laughter you caused me to execute. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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May I help you with the age of my card, as well as the age of the driver?

The guy who sold me that card purchased it in early 2018. I bought it in middle of 2019, it costed me 35000 HuF, on current exchange rate it means approx. 115 USD.
As I told, it’s not the newest most shiny stuff, still works excellent. And I wouldn’t call it a refugee from the stone-age.

The driver I linked you is from january 26. 2021. (release date by Nvidia).

I think it landed in Debian backports repo later in february this year. In the sid it was there for the unstable even way before that.
That driver, according to the list in /usr/share/doc/nvidia-driver/README.txt.gz supports RTX3090 too.
How is that 2 years old???
One of us (dis)likes Nvidia so much that perceives a different reality…

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The 1060 is already, in terms of GPU consumerism, very old. I understand that the card is still fine, but from a GPU timeline perspective, it is still an old card. So yes, support for such cards is much more expected.

I wouldn’t either. The card is fine. I repeat: “but from a GPU timeline perspective, it is still an old card”.

This is the first time in my life I see such new drivers in any repository. Maybe they improved something since I last used such Linux drivers a couple of years ago.

Yup, I hate NVIDIA!

DAMN!

SHIT!

WAIT!

Why did I buy a NVIDIA card for about 1200 USD 2 months ago…?!!

I HATE NVIDIA, WHY DID I BUY IT?!?!?!?!

punching myself :facepunch:

I know why I did buy my Nvidia card.
I did buy my Nvidia because I switched to Linux, and Nvidia had (has) better working drivers on Linux than my previous AMD card had. I got nice working solution for HW assisted video encoding, which on my previous AMD card was not present under Linux.
If stayed on Windows, both cards had drivers with the required feature set.
Why did you buy your Nvidia, I don’t know.
Why you basically say Nvidia sucks on Linux is another mystery to me… :thinking:

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Because I need it for work and all popular hardware just works on Windows, or there are plenty of workarounds out there, because most people on earth use Windows. So I don’t have to worry about incompatability or hardware issues, just because NVIDIA/Linux is too stupid to implement NVIDIA GPU support properly, especially for modern cards.

Anecdotal evidence is no evidence.

Anyone who knows their Linux shit, knows also that NVIDIA sux on Linux, compared to AMD.
Perhaps NVIDIA might “work” in your case. It “worked” in my case, too.
But if you have an AMD GPU, it will on average “work” much better, because of AMD’s politics.

Don’t believe me! Just go to any Linux forum or any place where people know their Linux shit and you will see that everyone hates NVIDIA, because it simply works worse than AMD GPUs on Linux, on average.

This never gets old. :slightly_smiling_face:

I opened a bottle of champagne when I left Windows. I don’t want to get it back.

Why didn’t you choose a recent AMD graphics card, and that would work for you exceptionally well both under Windows and Linux?

Agreed.
:wink:

I try not to react to strawman accusations. Never said it will work “exceptionally”, at all. I was just comparing the two and seeing everything from a relative, instead of an absolute perspective. Everything is relative. The only thing that is absolute in our universe is that everything is absolutely relative. :wink:

I assume that you are comparing anecdotal evidence to “knowing one’s Linux shit”. In this case, I am not talking about some random non-technical wannabe tech pros, like some try to seem here, for example, just by making a “rEviiEw” of an OS, without having any technical background knowledge, at all, (but that is another topic anyway) – I am talking about people who actually work with Linux all day long and actually know what they are talking about. Like actual C or Linux developers or (Linux) DevOps engineers or somebody like that. Not just randoms talking about crap they don’t know about.

For example, this forum has a couple of people who I value a lot, but not only, for their mainly, but not only, experience based technical knowledge. One of those couple people here is @daniel.m.tripp . He already worked with *NIX systems when most of the It’sFOSS writers were still shitting into their diapers.

OK, then I’m convinced, Nvidia sucks on Linux.
Despite of sucking, it still works very good.
If I ever buy a newer graphics card, I’ll do it with my software in my mind: so if Nvidia works better, it will be Nvidia again. I won’t care if it sucks or not, I don’t care for politics of AMD, I’ll just look at the fact how I can use it.
If AMD comes up with something I can’t deny, it may be an AMD.
If my current hardware would break suddenly, and I had to buy something next week, I’d go for Nvidia again for sure (100%).