Question regarding /etc/apt/sources.list and support period

Ubuntu
21

Hi Neville, :wave:

thanks so much for your latest post.

Very interesting info indeed. :+1:

I see. As I was intrigued by that I took a look at DistroWatch.com: MX Linux and the entry under “Init Software” is:

systemd,
SysV

So you´re certainly right in your statement. I really admire those people who are able of programming/coding such difficult “scenarios”. :blush:

It´s the weirdest thing but it seems that my Debian doesn´t have the respective entry at all:

rosika2@debian ~> ll /var/log | grep journal
rosika2@debian ~>

In contrast to that my Lubuntu main system yields this:

rosika@rosika-10159 ~> ll /var/log | grep journal
drwxr-sr-x+ 3 root       systemd-journal 4,0K Jan 20  2021 journal

BTW:

for accessing logs I make use of ksystemlog but have to admit I never tried it with the systemd-journal.

Many greetings from Rosika :slightly_smiling_face:

P.S.:

for anyone interested:

ksystemlog

https://userbase.kde.org/KSystemLog

https://docs.kde.org/trunk5/en/ksystemlog/ksystemlog/ksystemlog.pdf

22

I think there must be a way of turning journal on or off … in systemd somewhere?
My Debian 11 has /var/log/journal and there are files inside it, but it also has the readable files in /var/log ?

What I find strange is that some systems have both the readable log files and rhe systemd journal? Are they doing it all twice?
I prefer the readable log files. Old habits die hard.

for accessing logs I make use of `ksystemlog` but have to admit I never tried it with the systemd-journal.

Thank you. I guess that is a KDE app. Not experienced in KDE but am looking at it (with MX) at the moment.It is a big learning curve.

Regards
Neville

1 Like
23

Hi again, Neville, :wave:

I was looking around a bit and I think I found a hint as to why there´s no journal in /var/log in Debian.
On How to Use journalctl to Analyze Logs in Linux | Atlantic.Net it says:

By default, journal logs are enabled and stores log data at /run/log/journal/.
But, since logs are deleted automatically after a system reboot, you will need to configure Journal to store all logs permanently.

That seems to be the case with my Debian system. :blush:

The article refers to Ubuntu server, so it seems to be the same there.
On my Lubuntu machine the following procedure has - as it seems - already been taken care of:

First, create a directory to store the Journal log:

mkdir /var/log/journal

Next, set proper ownership with the following command:

chown -R root:systemd-journal /var/log/journal

Next, edit the journald default configuration file /etc/systemd/journald.conf and define your new directory:

nano /etc/systemd/journald.conf

Change the following line:

Storage=persistent

Save and close the file, then restart the systemd-journald service to apply the changes:

systemctl restart systemd-journald

You can now check the /var/log/journal directory:

ls -l /var/log/journal

You should see the following output:

drwxr-xr-x 2 root systemd-journal 4096 Apr 21 11:35 97bcb1f0d9aa4b339adefc87f1332d04

Tha´t pretty clear so far it seems.

In order to view the logs collected by the journald daemon one has to make use of the journalctl command:

man journalctl

lists all the available options…

Trying to use lnav (https://lnav.org/ ) for that journal only displays gibberish output, so it has to be journalctl indeed, as it seems. :blush:

Well, that´s one thing more I have learnt now. Very interesting indeed. :slightly_smiling_face:

Yes, KDE apps were something new for me on Lubuntu, too.

I just installed the log viewer with

sudo apt install kdeadmin

which gave me some tools, among them kde-config-cron and ksystemlog.

Many greetings from Rosika :slightly_smiling_face:

1 Like
24

UPDATE:

I found out lnav can indeed display the journal of systemd:

journalctl | lnav -q

I tried it out and it works perfectly. :blush:

(source: lnav › Wiki › ubuntuusers.de # in German)

Many greetings
Rosika :slightly_smiling_face:

1 Like
25

@Rosika ,
Thank you, that clarifies a whole range of things.
I find it difficult to imagine why one would want a journal that does not survive a reboot?

As you probably know this topic is part of the systemd controversey. People object that systemd keeps its logfiles in a form which is not viewable as a text file. Debian seems to be having a ‘bet each way’ and doing both.

Thank you
Neville

26

Hi Neville, :wave:

you´re welcome. I´m glad I was able to shed some light on some aspects.
In the process of looking things up I´ve learnt quite a bit myself. :blush:

Oh, thanks for the the clarification.
I´ve often heard about people not being particularly fond of systemd but wasn´t clear about the exact reasons…

Have a nice Sunday and many greetings.
Rosika :slightly_smiling_face:

27

The biggest issue seems to be systemd goes against the Unix mantra that a program should do one thing and do it well.
If it had remained just an init system, I think most people would be happy.
It has become much more than an init system, eg interfering with log files, and here it has gone against another Unix mantra - ie that all system files should be visible and editable as normal text files.

We dont want to relive the controversy. Just filling you in
Regards
Neville

2 Likes
28

Hi Neville, :wave:

thank you so much for providing your insights. :heart:

I see now. That´s really good to know.
I´ve always been wondering why people often debate about whether a system should use systemd or an alternative…

Now I get the picture. :+1:

Thanks again, Neville.

Many greetings from Rosika :slightly_smiling_face: